I say no pool unless people who use the pool pay to operate the pool. I spent many summer days at the pool growing up but my family and the other families in the community paid 100% of the operating costs to keep that pool open. That pool wasn't operated or built by the government. None of the community pools were operated by the government in our community. In the 60s, the founding members of our community pool all chipped in $5K to actually buy the land and build the pool. The operating costs were funded by annual membership fees and snack bar profits. Other pools in the area were build by developers but given to the communities they were in to operate as nonprofits funded by membership fees. There was no money from the state or county to build pools or operate them. That is how it should be run here too. Maybe the city might have to build the pool or wring that concession out of a developer but if the people who use the pool can't afford to pay to keep it up and running after that, then it should be filled in w/ dirt and turned into a park. No more "subsidizing things b/c that is what government does".

Kathy -
Its a focus because one has been dangled like a chlorine carrot in front of Hobokenites for many many years - promised by developers in exchange for condo building rights....at this point, no one cares about the economics, we care about the ethics. And drop the "I knew what I was getting" schtick. It's not a matter of what you or we or anyone else expected when you/we/they bought that's at issue, it's a matter of what has been promised by politicians and others to you and us and them for over a decade.

Lasteema, thank you for writing in. I was not aware that a public pool was something promised to Hoboken residents. And in my many conversations with other moms in Hoboken, the focus has always been on their desire for more parks, not for a swimming pool. I don't know the history behind the pool situation; can you enlighten me and other readers on what has transpired so we can learn for the future?

It was promised over and over again by a politician no longer in office who nearly bankrupted the city and an unscrupulous developer that never lived up to that promise. They will probably try to offer it again and when they do, they should be completely ignored b/c they can't at all be trusted. It is an empty promise, one they will never fulfill.

The wife of convicted felon and former mayor Russo I am told worked for the developer of the NW Redevelopment area who never built any of the promised give backs including the pool req center with the exception of the "park" next to Shop Rite, as the real estate broker and made made a fortune in commissions.

Funny how that happened . :-)

The potholed streets around ShopRite have finally be repaved at taxpayers expense. Too bad the developers were not required to do it in exchange for all those zoning variances, but hey, that is way things were done in Hoboken back then.

In the 1960s, my uncle and aunt worked with a group of Scarsdale residents to found the Scarsdale municipal pool by soliciting private donations to purchase the land and construct the pool facilities. For a long time the pool was funded by private donations until it was taken over by the village of Scarsdale; annual family membership is $418. http://scarsdaleonmymind.com/2011/05/27/scarsdale-municipal-pool-2011-season/
I spoke to my uncle, and it turns out that many Scarsdale residents are unhappy because there is no municipal indoor pool (ie. at the high school). Based on their projected costs for land acquisition and construction, he thinks it would cost $25 million to build the Scarsdale pool complex (4 pools very similar to the Secaucus setup) today.
Karen, if you and GrafixAvenger were to form a committee to raise donations, identify a site and put together projections for costs based on verifiable estimates both to build and maintain a community pool, I would happily review your documents and share them with my readers. But I think $25 million is an unreasonable sum to demand from the City of Hoboken and taxpayers for something that can be used for 3-4 months out of the year. Frankly, I'd rather have a park.

Thanks, Karen. I totally forgot about that one! A friend takes her son there- they both love it. I had trouble finding images of it, but here's one:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1F_Jc72XubQ/TioeADBJgtI/AAAAAAAAACY/UryEgw1KAeo/IMG_0412.jpg

If you've been to the Secaucus Swim Center, how would you compare PP with that?

I don't think you want to build an in-ground pool on a toxic waste site. That just doesn't sound all that much like a good or inexpensive idea.

GA - there will always be a large price tag associated w/ this pool. We will pay, it is just a matter of how. Will it be in the form of variances for high rises all along the west side on every lot of land, giving up the idea of a SW park and letting developers build large buildings there, getting the county to pay for it and they hit us for that through our county taxes, bond for it at the city level and pay for it over time through local taxes, etc... However we pay the tens of millions it costs to bring a nice pool to Hoboken, we will pay the price. Well we will pay for it so long as people who demand a pool are unwilling to pay for it themselves.

I don't think they are cleaning up Henkel. It is my understanding that most of what they are doing is tearing up the concrete and capping the contaminated soil. It costs too much to haul away all that soil and decontaminate it. All sorts of chemicals leeched into the soil. So many chemicals that I was told the soil might be so toxic it would be next to impossible to put anything but an open field there b/c of the risk of fumes or other emissions seeping into any building built on the site and and lingering there. I doubt you want a pool there unless you want your kids to grow gills and a 3rd eye in their forehead. There are other less toxic sites in town, sites where they didn't make chemicals in the past.

BTW - completely agree on memberships and day passes to fund ongoing operating expenses of any pool. read my post at the top, don't want to repeat my explanation.

(con't, part 2):
As it stands now, the Hoboken taxpayers (or our representatives and blog-o-philes) are acting like the equivalent of someone standing at the concession stand at a movie theater, buying overpriced popcorn for everyone who wanders by, when said taxpayer can't make the rent coming up on the first of the month. Enough silly political correct banter so everyone has something nice to put on their campaign literature. We just can't afford it, meanwhile repairs to the recently bought-and-paid-for Sinatra Field are still not fully funded. Unfortunately, due largely to over indulgences of the past, building a pool is simply beyond our grasp in the short term. There are much bigger fires to put out. As Mama used to say, "we've got champagne tastes and a beer budget".

Have to agree re. the fiscal prudence. It only makes sense to put Hoboken's finances in order before taking on huge new liabilities.

ply, dear. Little to no thought has been given about providing a community pool in Hoboken- so little that when we were offered one at no cost we didn't take it. Our loss was Brooklyn's gain. This is the one, I believe- take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2KLXSW0Oo8

Nice, isn't it? So why didn't we grab it?

Saying we can only achieve one public works project at a time (repairing Sinatra Park, creating a park in SW Hoboken or that long-promised community center) without exploring alternative opportunities, such as Green Acres funding used to build the (beautiful) Union City pool (http://media.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/photo/union-city-pooljpg-98f531a68ddf2f1d.jpg) is throwing water on what would be a great asset to Hoboken. Call it a dream, if you like but it has to start somewhere.

I'd rather we pay for a pool ourselves than take Green Acres funds for a pool. The reason the Union pool is open to everyone is they took Green Acres funding. I would want very strictly enforced residency requirements for any Hoboken pool. But since Union took state money, they have to let you and every other state resident in.

G Avenger, certainly the idea of a Hoboken pool holds water, especially with the qualifying heat of late. So no, I haven't gone off the deep end, and I would not throw water on the proposed Hoboken pool, because that would mean it was a splash park. We should have been on-guard so we didn't miss the boat on a stroke of luck like that floating pool. That was quite a belly flop. Also, you think Green Acres is the place to be, but Redrider has a point that we need to provide for our pool of residents so a municipal facility doesn't become an overcrowded dive. But not to be a wet blanket or a drip, the idea of trying to municipally finance a pool now is an Olympic feat, not a walk in the park. Until then we'll have to suit ourselves by packing our trunks and car-pooling out to Secaucus, even though they still won't let me in during the adult swim. But first let's make a splash by get Sinatra Park on-board.

Journey, Sky Club membership is $89/month if you use code "MOMBLOG" (set that up ages ago for my blog readers), that includes one adult and unlimited kids. It usually works best to go into the gym, call ahead to reception first (201-222-2582) to find out the hours for Taneeka (the sales rep I usually deal with). If you are bringing kids to the pool then you have to go during family swim but that is usually 2-3 hours each day. They also have a summer pool membership package, don't remember the details but it was definitely more expensive than $89/month.

Well they probably paid back the Green Acres funding b/c they didn't want non-residents using the pool. It would have been illegal for Union to take that money, use it for the pool and restrict it's access to city residents only. That is why under no circumstances should we ever use state money for any pool.

And pools aren't cheap at all. Someone has to pay. I certainly don't want taxpayers subsidizing this pool. You want it, I am all for letting you and others of a like mind go pay for it.

My friends and I would prefer to financially support a local pool instead of having to schlep our children to neighboring community pools and pay higher non-resident fees. Each family's needs in the community evolve overtime but just because we no longer use Church Square Park in the way we used to when our children were younger we still support it fully and the continued efforts to improve and maintain it for other families. I would view a community pool the same way. It is long overdue. The value of a community pool is without question- not only for families with young children but teenagers and seniors too. As teenagers my husband and sister law ended up becoming swim instructors and life guards through their community pool swim programs- jobs they held through college. We lived in NYC for years before we lived in Hoboken and for as much time as we spend in the city (so much we joke that we sleep in Hoboken but live in Manhattan) we still want great community assets in Hoboken for the entire community.

My children are 3 & 5 and we would benefit from having a pool, but I have no idea whether the other 49,996 members of this town support the concept. Ultimately this comes down to money and buy-in. Would I support an extra $500 to my annual property taxes for a pool? Sure. But $2,000? Probably not. The simplest way to deal with this is to have Karen & Grafix Avenger setup a fund where Hoboken residents & businesses can contribute with the money going to the city of Hoboken, similar to the Project Play initiative. if people truly want this, they will contribute.

Nice try, it sounds like swimming was a major part of your family life when you were growing up. For me, it was softball, tennis and fencing, all things that NYC excels at (the Parks dept has superb free summer tennis programs). I expect that my kids will spend their summers at the local fencing clubs (there is one four blocks from our house, why do you think we live here?), mentoring the younger kids and working on their own development. As my kids get older my husband and I are getting more involved with developing fencing programs and outreach to the local community. My focus is on fencing, not swimming.

Karen, the Sunset Park pool is in Sunset Park, not in Bay Ridge. It's at 44th Street, which is three miles from where I grew up in Bay Ridge. If you know city distances then you know that is at least half an hour on the subway (15 minutes waiting for the R train on a blazing hot platform, or taking a slow bus). Neither I nor my family know anyone who goes there because it is too far, there is no parking and is insanely crowded because it is free. I do not enjoy getting kicked in the face while I am swimming; the only times I swam when I was a kid was at summer camp at Poly Prep, and the pool there is small and not in good shape. It sounds like Hoboken completely dropped the ball on the floating pool. Don't know what happened then but the city should have jumped on it. But you snooze, you lose. Free pools don't show up every day, and now we have to go the hard, expensive way. I personally want to see my property taxes go down, not up. To build a municipal pool you are either looking at private funding, which makes the projected pool no different from the dozens of private pools in buildings around Hoboken, or else by a massive taxpayer rate increase.

Most community pools I know of charge a couple hundred or so for the season. That isn't much different than $89/month for 3-4 months.

And if you expect the taxpayers of Hoboken to subsidize any pool, the only thing you are arguing for is for the haves to have another tax hike to subsidize the darn thing. Sorry GA, but I am sick of paying for things we do not need. We don't need a pool any more than we need a guy to press start on the Xerox machine at the BOE. It is a luxury, a luxury that if you want then by all means pay for it.

My goodness, yes. A $2 million pool offered for free... gone to NYC. It's docked in the Bronx now, I've found out.

Btw, I lived in Bay Ridge for a year, commuted via R train to college, Cooper Union-- fun neighborhood, great eateries.

It would have ruined the view from whatever Applied building they had parked it in front of. That is why we turned it down.

A realist. The owners of Applied gave a ton of money to various politicians in this state. We were going to have to dock it somewhere, probably at one of their buildings. You think they wanted a public pool there? I don't and I bet they made that clear to the right people.

Sky Club has family swim every day, sometimes 2x per day. The hours tend to vary so I call ahead when I am thinking about going. But usually they have family swim from 11am-1pm and again from 4pm-7pm.

If you can come up w/ the money to build and run a pool w/o hitting the city budget for funds, go for it. That has been my position all along on the issue. But to this day it seems what you are looking for is for us to subsidize it. IMO, that is a non-starter.

And if your response was related to the floating pool, I was just pointing out the obvious fact that Applied and the other developers in town didn't want some barge docked in front of their buildings. I personally don't care where any barge w/ a pool on it was docked and I think it was a massive mistake not to accept that free pool. But that doesn't mean I believe we passed on that free floating pool and spent a fortune on a next to useless park on a pier b/c Roberts was just a moron. He was a moron doing the bidding of the developers who didn't want a barge in front of their shiny new buildings.

GA - Applied owns 333 River. Pier C is right in front of which building?
And the solution to operating expenses is the same one I have consistently supported, the users pay for it. Charging admission defrays operating expenses quite nicely.
As for Pier C, I never said it was ugly, I said it was useless. It is by far the most lovely waste of over $20mm I have ever seen. That doesn't mean I'd ever waste $20mm recreating that park elsewhere. I can think of far better uses of $20mm.

Thanks, Karen! I can always digitize the face(s)... pls don't go crazy looking, it's alright if you can't find one. Thanks for the effort.

Great post on your blog today GA about the neighboring community pools. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words and those pictures show precisely what Hoboken is missing.
http://grafixavenger.blogspot.com/2011/07/match-game.html