Yes, no pensions or paid sick days. And while we're at it...
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.

"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"

"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."

"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.

"Both very busy, sir."

"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."

"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

This is a hilarious. Fat cats? The only fat cat in this equation is the Governor. Many municipal employees qualify for public housing and assistance. No one is making 6 figures unless they are a commissioner and how many of them are there really? No one is getting rich on a straight local or state government salary. Cops and firefighters might make extra doing OT, but nothing like Wall St. paychecks. Many municipal employees make only $30-$45K. Try living on that in this area.

Fort Lee cops if you can even call them that make over 100k. Well after a few years on the job. If there are useless public employees, there you go. There are some cops that actually care but most of the department would have probably been criminals if they weren't cops.

zizi...I'm a very strong supporter of pension and heath insurance reform for public workers but lets be a bit reasonable. First and foremost, of course those performing essential service to NJ taxpayers should be paid a fair compensation and that includes access to health insurance and some form of pension for their retirements (you can argue the benefits for defined benefit over defined contribution, but clearly they need access to some fair pension system). Eliminate paid sick days?? If you're referring to them being paid out for sick days they didn't need to use, then I'm with you. If you mean not give them any sick days for the few days they can't make it to work during the year because of flus, ulcers, etc., well I think that's a little nutty. I think teachers that probably directly interact with at least a hundred kids a week are going to be pretty susceptible to colds and the like. I mean c'mon.

Most citizens of Teaneck do not have pensions...... why then the teaneck employees have pensions? Teachers don't work full year and still enjoy great pay and benefits..... Teaneck students score at the bottom when compared to the rest of the state while the teachers/administrators make salaries on the top of the chart....... my taxes went from $5300 in 1999 to almost $11000 this year..... does this sound good to you....... I am just too sick of teachers making 6 figure salaries and then demanding pensions......

Zizi,
Most private employees have an employer who contributed into a 401k, many public employees do not. Many of these same public employees also do not contribute nor are eligible for SS. Their pensions are in lieu of SS and you tax amounts would be the same if we abolished pensions as the township would then be required to pay the 6.2% (on average) to SS. Granted this is not true for all township employees but to lump pension reform together is illogical as not all employees have the same benefits.

I get that you dislike the school system here in town, you somehow seem to work it into almost every post you have here regardless of the topic. You are also not the only resident to have you taxes increase over the past decade. I'm fairly certain that your property value has also increased along with your tax bill, no? Did you really think you were locked into the same tax rate for the remainder or your property ownership? If you feel your home is valued too high then by all means appeal it through the proper channels, we did and had a reduction to a more reasonable market value.

6.2% for the duration of the employment sounds like a great deal for the tax payers than supporting these fat cats for the rest of their time on this planet. I really don't understand why demanding a better return on our education dollars is such a bad thing to do. JAD: please provide details how to appeal my tax assessment...... I am sick of of paying taxes......

Here is the link to the Bergen county board of taxation, you are too late to file for the current tax year but this will give you plenty of time to research the process and get your paperwork in.

http://www.co.bergen.nj.us/taxboard/appeal.html

As far as the rest, I have no problem requiring accountability for any profession. I haven't followed this very closely but know that NJ was considering opting out of NCLB, I hope they will follow through with those plans as I believe this had been a HUGE detriment to education in general and within Teaneck. I'd like to be able to fairly assess schools as well as individual teachers once they are not longer required to 'teach to the test'.

Lumping all pension drawing employment in as the same doesn't work. The %'s over the 6.2% (the 6.2% is essentially a wash as it would go into SS if not paid into the pension system) paid into the current system is under 2% far many workeys. I have NEVER worked in the private sector where the company did not at a minimum pay 2% into a 401k or 403b. Frankly I have never held a career type position that paid less than 5% into some type of private retirement fund?

JAD: One more word of advice about tax appeals: Spend the $400-$500 and get a professional appraisal done. It's worth it when you submit your paperwork because in all likelihood the town tax assessor will "make a deal" and you will avoid having to go to a hearing. I got a professional appraisal and got my taxes lowered by about $1500/year, which MORE than pays for the appraisal in just the first year.

B@B
We did as well and it was some of the best money we have spent in years. We saved about the same though we had to appeal last years decision as the original decision still had our home overvalued but about 50k.

@ Malcolm 17.5% does not make a majority of employees. You stated the highest paid employee, wouldn't you also want to state what the lowest paid employee is making and how that person is the most in need of a pension?

Well next time how about you vote for a Democrat and watch him or her cut your quality of life more through a fat tax hike b/c that is what Corzine promised you when he ran against Christie.

Evie...The thing you should really be concerned with is if the Governor does nothing or worse yet follows the Corzine model, which will only make for a much bigger problem down the road. You might not like getting your pension cut by COLA, how would you like someone coming out and saying, next year your pension is being cut 20% because the new actuarial tables state that's all we can afford. I know everyone likes to think that's an impossibility, but in fact it's an absolute reality. It's happening across the country and it could very easily happen here. The problem is we had politicians and unions working together to make unrealistic promises to state workers knowing the pensions and health coverage being promised could never be paid for long term, but that it would ensure votes and campaign contributions. It's a disgrace and all state citizens were hurt by it. We all paid higher taxes to pay for insane and illogical benefits like workers being paid out for unused sick time (they don't even do that in France). In addition the unions pushed for far more workers than the state and counties and towns actually needed to provide a necessary level of service. Town halls are filled with secretaries and data clerks and people operating like we were in 1970 in terms of how work gets done and as a result there are likely 15-20% more workers on public payrolls then the taxpayers really need. It's a disgrace and we were both taken advantage of.

Yes, I know.

You also forgot "an extremely short work day". It bothers me more than a little when I think about it as I sit at work waiting for yet another 10-12 hour day to end.

Another negative result of the whole "unused sick days" issue is they become valuable to the employee. The employee is inclined not to use them. This results in sick employees going to work.

It is the government. The only thing they do well is waste money.

At one time I was a public employee. They are not paid that much. I was injured on the job and those accrued sick days were a life saver. Instead of having to go on Disability at a much lower pay, where I would lose my home and car because I couldn't pay my bills, I was able to collect a full salary until I was better and return to work. Once my Workman's Comp hearing was over (2 years later), my employer was reimbursed.

Some people chose to shun unions because they could get the same benefits without having to pay union dues. Little by little their benefits were taken away. Now they've watched their peers get laid off, they willingly work the hours of 2 employees and instead of having the balls to demand a raise they'd rather see the benefits taken away from others.

I find that pretty offensive. My father was a MTA executive by the time he retired and he earned his way up to it and every dime in his pension fund. He deserves to have the money he rightfully owned be cut? Luckily he worked in NY, and I think the pensions are still going strong there. Of course there are some employees with BS jobs but all shouldn't be punished for the actions of some.

Your contract is with the taxpayers and you are bankrupting us. Enough is enough. Things need to change. You want those great benefits, then time to go back to the way things were when taxpayers offered you those great benefits. Time to go back to when civil servants got paid less than private sector workers in exchange for job security, pensions & health coverage. That was your deal with us, well that was your deal with us before you bought off politicians to get a different deal.

Personally I think it is disgusting that my tax dollars get funneled into union coffers and those unions use my tax money to buy off politicians who promise to spend more money and stick me w/ a big fat tax hike as a thank you. But that is just me, your average taxpayer who has never and will never work for the government and just has to pay all the bills for the government. I don't expect someone who lives off my tax dollars to agree w/ my assessment of things.

Wow Redrider, that's some major class warfare you got going there. It's OK for public employees to get their pittance when you were making much more money than them and this should always be the case? When I was a public employee I saw people in the private sector hop from job to job every 2 yrs and get $150K Christmas bonuses. I got a 10 pound turkey. Now that the private sector people spent all that, lived the high life, lost it, and don't have the courage to go ask for a raise or their benefits back, they want the turkey of the person that stayed at their job for 35 years.

It's not your tax money that gets put into unions, it is the employee's money. Unless you think if I use your service or purchase your product I have the right to tell you and every one of your employees how to spend their take home pay.

The problem isn't with the people who bargained in good faith. It began with Christine Whitman who decided to stop funding the pension plans.

Bellair, please don't try to make private employees look bad. I work for a private company, but I'm just as hard working as any public employee. I do feel for you, my father was a public employee, but there are a lot of hardworking public employees as well.

Sorry, it is tax dollars that you are spending to lobby for more spending and more taxes. You live off of taxpayer money, not money you went out and made in the private sector. Those tax dollars come from taxpayers like me who work in the private sector, generate taxable income in the private sector and it is us that completely support the private sector. If it weren't for us taxpayers in the private sector, you'd have no job and no income and it is past time you people remembered that every dime you spend is ultimately money that you took out of the pockets of people in the private sector.

And sorry, when you are bribing politicians w/ campaign contributions, you are no more bargaining in good faith w/ the people you bought off than any developer did when they bought off Roberts and Russo. It is just a form of legalized bribery but it is still completely corrupt and completely wrong. When you bargain w/ someone in good faith, you don't bargain w/ them sitting on your side of the negotiating table b/c you bought them off. You bought your raises and your fat benefits from people you bribed and us taxpayers are paying for it.

BTW - I think Christie needs to start looking into passing pay to play reforms to go way past just companies and to cover unions as well. I personally am fed up w/ unions bribing politicians to get them to give them fat raises, generous benefits and sticking us w/ high taxes to pay for it all.

Bell - it is class warfare. You did get that much right. It is and always be a fight between those who pay and those who take. I am a payer, you are a taker. We will always be on opposite sides of the table especially in a state where payers like me are faced w/ the highest taxes in the country and feel like we get nothing in return of equivalent value.

Redrider, you don't know what the **** you are talking about. sure there are commissioners out there that make big salaries, but the majority of public employees work hard for wages lesser than private sector employees. When my father retired, he was making 105k I think and he was working his ass off all day. I make much more than that and I work less than he does. I think he deserved every dime of his pension.

If the man retired as a supervisor and didn't boost his pension by playing games w/ OT near the end of his career or get a fat payday from unused sick days, I might be inclined to agree with your assessment if I believed in defined benefit pension plans. But since I think they should be abolished and we should transition to defined contribution plans, I will have to respectfully disagree.

Billy as I said, I worked as a public employee. I've owned my own business for over 10 years. I know what it's like on both sides. I have nothing against people in the private sector. I am one. But I do have something against people whose choices didn't pan out at they expected and now want to take away the benefits of others. Although people want to focus on the few public jobs that have high salaries, the majority of public employees are low level and will never make the 105K your dad did. They are working in laborer, maintenance or clerk titles making about 30K.

And Redrider you need to get off your high horse. When I worked there my "fat raise" was generally about 2% spread over a 3 yr contract. Which for a person making 30K per year works out to $600...$200 per year. And Red, Christie stuck you with the bill to give millionaires a tax break. As far as you being a giver and me a taker, well the majority of my property taxes go to the schools. I never put a child through the school system. Should I be complaining? It's all about being part of a society, Red. Join it instead of thinking you own it.

I love how YOU PEOPLE keep calling what Christie did a tax break. He gave nobody a tax break. He refused to raise taxes. There is a massive difference between the two. Plus, IMO, you don't raise taxes on anyone when you already have the highest taxes in the country. I don't even want to hear about a tax increase on anyone until we fall out of the top 20 in terms of taxes.

Actually Red, he refused to renew an already existing tax in a time when the state needed the revenue. In its place he took away the Homestead Rebate from all the disabled, low income and senior citizens, basically raising all their taxes. Shared sacrifice yanno.

We the taxpayers of NJ have the highest taxes in the country. We are absolutely getting screwed over.

During Hoboken's last Board of Ed contract process the BOE employees got raises far and above what residents were seeing. A few residents who spoke voiced their appreciation for teachers but told the audience that they just recieved large pay cuts. These mothers and fathers asked that raises be pushed back until the economy recovered.
The Union members who were there started chanting "Poor baby" and "That was your choice", I assume the choice being not working for the public schools. I have yet to hear the Union head apologize for the actions of the people he represents.

You can't have a public sector class without a prive sector middle class. Now that public sector employees are in the same boat we've been in for over a decade perhaps the chants of "poor baby" will stop and public sector employees will start working with the struggeling mothers and fathers of this community.

George, Extremely clear and logical statement. Thanks for making it. I'm amazed when it seems to be missed that the taxpayers (and yes I know public sector pays taxes too, but also gets paid 100% of their salaries from those taxes so it is different) will still pay a by far majority of the pension and health insurance costs. Is it a different deal then workers had before? Yes, but it is still a tremendously good deal and the best one in town. Also, where is it written that once someone was offered a compensation package it could never change? The public sector wants to blare when it's to their benefit that they shouldn't have to pay for benefits as they didn't have to in the past, so the rules are unfairly changing. They didn't seem to have that same strong hearted belief when fundamental changes were made to their compensation levels at the strong armed insistence of their union reps when the rules were changed and instead of public payroll employers making roughly 60%-70% of the household incomes of the towns that employed them they are now making well in excess of those levels. The rules changed, they cheered, the taxpayers were barely aware of it and the tax base could never afford the cost of it (when the associated costs of the pensions were included) and we now need changes made. It's that simple, though George put it much better.

And what exactly is wrong with Jamie Cryan?

The theory goes that Michele Russo wife of convicted felon and former mayor Anthony Russo and mother of Michael Russo, cousin of Terri Castellano was far to poitically toxic to take the position and Mason gal Friday was not truly trusted by the family and old guard to be loyal only to them so the picked somone who looked like ayuppie but was old guard to the core.

So far thety seem to have got what they paid for.