This must be killing Beth mason....good to see voters are not blind to what was happening. I wonder if that guy on h411 website will start getting a clue that no one is buying his kool aid. :-)

Take a day off from the rhetoric. This is America and the people had their say.

Anyone else get a chuckle out of that headline? Maybe they should have gone with Machine candidates lose machine vote.

I think the vote totals may have the runoff and moving election to November questions reversed

davidd, errrrrr the difference is thousands of votes? that is simply impossible?

We still don't know how many bought & paid for votes were turned in, do we?

I am right, i should take a day off from the rhetoric? did you walk by 1200 washington street where beth mason had her political headquarters for move forward? instead of helping her 2nd ward residents she was having people put up move forward(backward) campaign signs...simply wrong on her part.

I wish a reporter would ask several seniors from different senior housing complexes what they were told
about the rent control question by any informational seminars they might have been attended at their cmplexes.

Sliceoflife

Zimmer's opposition to the rent control question is a major strike against her in my book, especially as the question apparently lost by a narrow margin. Rent control is a negative for everyone in the long run. And while it probably can't just be abolished immediately, as a political reality, there's no reason Hoboken has to to have the most onerous rent control statute in the state. And this ballot question just backed it off *slightly*.

No, I'm not a landlord. I'm a real Zimmer supporter who is less and less enthralled with her. I know lots of Mason/Old Crook (more accurate term than 'Old Guard' IMO) bloggers pretend to be disaffected Zimmer supporters, but I'm really becoming one. I will probably be forced to vote for her again if as I expect, it's between her and a Mason/Old Crook candidate or 'young fresh faced' stooge (Cammarano/Occippinti type) fronting for them. But I wonder if she's weakening herself more than she realizes trying to please everybody. I was interested to overhear a council ally of hers at a social event who seemed to have a similar opinion to mine.

Rent control absolutely applies to City Hall - It's part of our municipal code. The Mayor and 4 council people were absolutely correct to be vocal in their position on the rent control question. They represent tenants, owners and landlords. All of those constituents have a right to know where their elected officials stand on this part of the municipal code. Several other council persons took a position on ballot questions #1 & #3 as well, which was also completely appropriate. Hobbs is also correct, Zimmer's position was in no way whatsoever reflective of an "us" vs. "them" mentality.

i will be voting for mayor zimmer next november but I did vote in favor of the rent control change in contradiction of the position she took. though I think she is doing a good job, i didn't completely agree with her position and therefore made my own decision. to call us zimmer zombies is plain foolish. we are educated individuals who make up our own minds. personally i would like to see rent control completely abolished but that is why I am not in politics because that would not go over so well with the voting public. i do believe she is very well aware of the problems we have in hoboken (abuse of affordable housing, rent control, etc.) and will deal with in an appropriate manner when the time is right and people are willing to compromise on the issues at hand.

What are the numbers for the vote on rent control? Odd that they are missing from this article.

No: 6,975

Yes: 6,444

I'd be interested voter participation in Hoboken. What # voted in Presidential, Senate, House races? Then the # for the questions, seems about 12-13,000. The fall-off to the BOE races seems to be significant, with the top vote getter at 3500. I say that the voter particpation that was the rallying cry for so many, did not materialize.

Though others have responded in various ways to my raising the rent control issue, I certainly didn't say Zimmer had no 'right' to express an opinion. That's always a straw man anyway, somebody's 'right' to have or express an opinion.

I simply disagree strongly with Zimmer, and while it's possible to construct a 'benefit of the doubt' argument that she took that position bravely, I tend to think she did it because she thinks she can always count on voters like me who intensely detest the Old Crooks, while pandering to an additional segment of subsidized tenants who don't give a flying f about reform. And if it really wouldn't affect one single vote for her to take up the cause... then why did she waste time doing so?

But I agree with Puzzle, until the Old Crook faction completely collapses, Zimmer is at least partly right in assuming she can get away with being a half ass reformer (which she is, at best, on many things, not just this) and I'll still be forced to vote for her. But I still wonder if such pandering affects her political position overall as positively as I believe she thinks it does.

I also think Zimmer is likeable, trustworthy (relative to the crooks who ruled the 20+ previous years I was here before she took office) and not the best leader.

There's certainly room for agreeable disagreement about the pace of change. But though no political insider by any means, I'd again mention my interest in a council ally's open statement, in a small group, of his frustration with Zimmer's tendency to try to placate Old Crook voters (not the OC's themselves) too much, and I noted that the same councilman made no mention of the rent control ordinance in his note to constituents before the election. So again Zimmer has the 'right' to express an opnion, and I have the 'right' to be displeased that she didn't stay silent if she couldn't summon the courage to actually support the measure (rent control is a basic component of the kind of electorate that elects corrupt politicians, so favoring rent control and speaking of 'long term reform' is a contradiction, just IMO). And supporters' intensity and monetary contributions to campaigns can also be affected, not just their votes. Just how I feel has no measurable impact, obviously, but I again wonder if Zimmer is weakening herself by trying to be a 'third way' herself it seems (I totally agree that self proclaimed 'third ways' against her have up to now uniformly been fronts for the Old Crooks).

LOL.

Just IMO. HOBO87, but you really seem desperate to try some anti-Administration political spin yourself.

Why are they waiting until nov 20th to count the missing ballots?

Big Ruthy If you Vote by mail its not Honest? Do you know that it is ok to vote by mail!!!!!!!

It is OK to vote by mail, but are all the votes by mail in Hoboken honest?

http://www.bluejersey.com/diary/17458/red-flags-how-much-does-it-cost-to-buy-an-election-in-hobokens-4th-ward

ruth mcAllister is an idiot.

"The vote by mails are scary," McAllister said at the Kids First victory party at Court Street. "We won the honest vote, the most important vote to me."

Wonder why the schools are such a wreck? Morons like mcAllister run the board of ed?

If you voted by mail, McAllister thinks you are dishonest. That's the kind of nonsense they are teaching to the kids in our schools? If you were flooded, out of electricty or maybe living somewhere out of Hoboken and voted by mail, then kids first calls you a crook. if you're an old lady with an oxygen machine and you don't get out much anymore so you sent in an absentee ballot, then McAllister thinks you are a dishonest character.

Hope the thousands of people who voted for this idiot are happy. She used that same insane logic to fire two of the best teachers in hoboken.

FACT: Peter Cunningham is sending around a letter telling KF supporters they can still get in their email votes. Hey peter talk to mcAllister cause she doesn't want those votes cause they are not honest.

You KF goons treat the people who live in the Housing Authority like brainless wimps who don't know up from down unless Matt Calicchio tells them what to do. Your arrogance shows through in all you say and do.

Kids first puts on red shirts and hands out buttons to clueless moms at 4th street park just trying to get their babies some sunshine and that's not "harvesting". maybe their votes are just cheaper to harvest - like free balloons and cookies for the kids and laptops when you reach 13.

FACT: I didn't see anything in the KF mailer that said SAT scores down for six years in a row! NJ Ask scores are rock bottom!

where's the distortion? McAllister is the one who said only machine votes are honest. throw back kf's words at them and their feelings get hurt and they cry about distortion.
and then peter cunningham says send in your email vote for mcallister. but he sure don't send his precious kids to the schools that mcallister runs. no distortion. just the FACTS baby.
SAT scores stink and keep going down. That's a FACT.
NJ Ask scores stink and keep going down. That's another FACT.

tell the truth and kf calls it a smear.