While I agree that the bloodbath that occurs in no way celebrates being Irish, moving the parade will do what exactly? Does anyone really believe that people won't still have house parties (I know I will) or go to bars (several of my friends who work in bars have indicated they believe nothing will change) on the first Saturday in March? So now we won't have police presence? Or we will, thus indicating that no one, not even the mayor, thinks that moving the parade to a Wednesday will prevent problems.

I think that the parade has nothing to do with the debauchery. If you want to end the problem then shut down all the bars on the first Saturday of March, but realize that the cost of that is going to be very high on the political capital scale. Very high.

The problem isn't the bars or the house parties. It is the complete lack of enforcement of laws against public drunkenness & hooliganism year round that gives this town a reputation where pretty much anything goes when you are drunk & stupid. More tickets w/ $2,000 fines passed out freely year round to the idiots who come to this town to get blotto drunk & cause trouble will convince them to behave or go elsewhere and and create trouble.

I find it difficult to believe anything Chief Falco says these days.

Perhaps the answer is to set up designated "debauchery areas" in Hoboken. :-)

And the 2nd Saturday of the month is the real St. Patty's.

you'll never hear him say that he dosent want the parade theres to much money to made with overtime

FAP, you miss my point. If the mayor has a normal Saturday police presence, b/c "There's no parade" and thousands of people still flock to the city, and the problems are as bad as (or worse) than last year, then she looks like an idiot. If she has the same level of police presence as last St Paddy's Parade day (or even just an elevated amount from a normal Saturday), then she looks like she realizes that parade or no, the 1st Saturday of March is a sh*tshow, thus acknowledging that: a- the parade has nothing to do with the problems & b- no one is taking her edict seriously.

As to your point about arrests- I would LOVE for people to be arrested. I think that's a splendid idea. And on Monday, at their arraignment, hand them the $2000 fine. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Owl I got your point what I'm saying is it sounds like you're making an unreasonable assumption and I was asking if you had any basis for it. I'd be gobsmacked if there wasn't a highly elevated police presence on both the first Saturday and, to a lesser extent, the new day.

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I disagree with your conclusion that an elevated presence on the first Saturday indicates that the parade and the mayhem have no linkage. The mayhem wasn't directly caused by the parade but grew out of the day's celebration independently. And independently the mayhem will begin to subside if the focus is moved to another day. This event has a life of its own but moving the parade creates a second focus which hopefully dissipates some of the Saturday crowd and allows uniformed services to better handle the significant problem elements.

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I fully expect there to be festivities on the first Saturday but like I said if the crowd is reduced by as little as 20% uniformed services will be better able to serve the community.

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Other than turning Hoboken into an intrusive police state, which is very expensive not to mention undesirable in its own right, I haven't heard a single idea on how to handle the day’s mayhem causing element.

If the cops write enough tickets, that will more than make up for the cost of having to bring in more to keep the animals under control.

You can't have it both ways FAP. Either she declares that the parade is the cause and does away with it. Or she admits that it isn't, and gives them the permit.

Owl please stop telling other people what their arguments can be. The parade can be a contributing factor without being the sole cause. Altering one contributing factor, even a significant one, will likely change the magnitude of the event but not end it all together, thus you still need an elevated police presence.

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As it is nearly impossible to predict how much the magnitude will change the only reasonable course is for the first year to be cautious and have a very significant elevated presence.

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My understanding is the goal is to make the day manageable and I think everyone is open to suggestions on how to do that. Everyone on this board in any case.

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But let's recognize that for two years drastically increasing law enforcement presence has failed to end the mayhem. Hoboken needs a new solution.

FAP, you didn't address my original point, instead focusing on something I never said (your question about who said there would be less law enforcement). Since then I've been repeatedly pointing out that logically speaking, if one is to say that the parade is part of the problem, so cancelling it will reduce the problem, then one has to assume that police presence will be reduced since there will be no parade/no problem.

OR, we can all just admit that the parade is ancillary to the actual issue (drunken idiots who can either afford the $2K ticket or who will assume they won't get one and run amok), which you addressed with your "lock them up" idea.

Cancelling the parade will do nothing. No one comes to this town to watch the parade. The one time I actually went to the parade the only people there that were sober were families, and the drunks were either wandering between parties/bars or at Court Street (which has a policy that allows you back in if you have a ticket).

Being Dawn's biggest cheerleader is fine, but to be blind to what I stated in my first paragraph is silliness.

No one is talking about cancelling the parade only moving it to another day as not to contribute to the mayhem that has surrounded it in the past.

"Does anyone really believe that people won't still have house parties (I know I will) or go to bars (several of my friends who work in bars have indicated they believe nothing will change) on the first Saturday in March?

.[Formatting change is FAP's]

So now we won't have police presence? Or we will, thus indicating that no one, not even the mayor, thinks that moving the parade to a Wednesday will prevent problems".

So let's agree you brought up changing the "police presence". In another post you said...

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"Either she[The Mayor] declares that the parade is the cause and does away with it. Or she admits that it isn't, and gives them the permit."

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This is a false choice. Something can be a contributing factor without being the "cause". Removing a contributing factor mitigates but likely won't end the event or occurrence. I believe the parade to be a contributing factor as such it is entirely appropriate to still have an elevated uniformed service presence on the original day, at least for the first year or two.

I also disagree with your conclusion that moving the parade will do nothing. If I'm proved wrong I’m open to that and Hoboken should search for other solutions.

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I'm not trying to be a cheerleader, but thank you for the ad homonym, I'm looking for anyone who has a reasonable solution. I'm not hearing a lot of alternatives that could reasonably be expected to change the magnitude of the day's participation without creating an intrusive police state.

Ok, now you're starting to really aggravate me. I'm not addressing anything other than the following:

The problem with the day is copious amounts of alcohol consumption. The parade has nothing to do with the problems as it is simply not where people are getting drunk. If it were, then I could see moving it. I honestly couldn't care less about the parade and am not arguing for or against it. I'm stating that moving it is akin to popping a zit on my rump and saying "Wow, my acne is really clearing up" while still having a pizza face.

I already agreed (twice by my count) that throwing people in a cell until Monday would be a terrific means of reducing problems. Yea, this year it won't do much but after a few hundred people spend 72 hours in clothing waiting for their arraignment, next year I guarantee it will reduce the number of infractions.

In addition, charge the bars a flat fee (I'd base it on capacity) per head through the door to put in the pool for paying the cops, and then fine any bars that over serve patrons.

House parties - if they're unruly and have to be shut down (and I've had 5 with zero tickets), fine the owner $2K and put that in the pool for police funds too. Also, make a mandatory court hearing for the owner/renter & arrest whomever was unruly & throw them in the drunk tank (exception: noise violations).

Moving the parade is like putting a band aid on a cut artery. Great idea, but not going to help.

Owl Partial Quote: "The parade has nothing to do with the problems..."

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1) This is your personal conclusion, which there is no evidence for or against.

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2) If your conclusion is wrong the rest of your argument falls apart.

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3) I believe you are wrong,

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If disagreeing with you is not allowed I'm not sure we can continue this discussion.

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Again I'll say my belief is the parade creates an event that other events organize around. I'll also say the mayhem has grown well beyond the parade. However moving the parade to another day moves "a" focus and "MAY" defuse some of attention from the first Saturday. Especially considering that the real St. Pats' day is also on a Saturday this year.

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I believe the magnitude of participation has reached a level which Hoboken and County uniformed services are not readily able to deal with. If moving the parade spreads the event over multiple days, or weekends, then perhaps the uniformed services will be able to deal with it.

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I'll agree that there is no way to know if this will work without trying it.

Lastly I'll repeat I also support moving from ticketing to outright arrests for public drunkenness and the host of assorted violations that usually accompany it. Want to be drunk at a party, fine. Want to be EXTREMELY loud at a party, perhaps you get a ticket. Step onto the street and be a drunken problem, your butt gets thrown in a wagon and carted off to the county lockup.

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Doing all of these will hopefully lead to more manageable events in the future. Who knows, if Hoboken gets a reputation for strict enforcement and arrests and the crowds stay sane the parade can be moved back to a Saturday.

ROFL: Gulags for bloggers.

I just meant that I do not trust Falco in general.

A party license? What is this, a college campus and my frathouse needs a permit to party?

Yeah, that will work. Go ahead and just start regulating what people can do in their own homes and just watch how quick the city gets sued.

I like the Sunday alternative. People will say that the partyers will come in on Saturday, but Friday night before the parade Hoboken is relatively quiet.

(con't)
b) Over-the-top binge drinking house parties have long been over-tolerated, and follow-up of shutting said house parties down on a day like parade day has been more than lax. It is my understanding that law enforcement policy is pervasive with permissiveness on this, and I absolutely do not think this is a reflection on rank-and-file members of law enforcement. The tolerance is systemic and common property damage is too much a norm, with little comeuppance for offenders.

c) As FAP points out, person drunk, disorderly, urinating in public, violent, etc, etc have little comeuppance as well. Give them a $2000 fine which offenders (many or most with large disposable incomes) then will either call the cost of doing business or too often successfully fight in court, have reduced, whatever. As well, consider there may be a hesitation on the part of law enforcement to invoke such a heavy fine unless conditions are extreme.
(con't)

(cont)
In my opinion, police should be encouraged to arrest and have people cool their jets for a spell in county lock-up. Then they won't do it again. Right now effective penalties are not in place. This simple tool is non-negotiable and is more effective remedy than moving parade dates (which will help but not solve) or issuing large fines (which has virtually no impact on what goes down on parade day). Encourage law enforcement to enforce normal laws of personal comport on house parties. Couple this with spot checks and fines to bars for repeatedly serving people who are sloppy drunk and we might just get somewhere with fixing the problems without abridging the rights of those who wish to celebrate a holiday without getting out of hand

One of the rapes was Friday night. The other was Saturday. Either way, that could happen any day of the week.

Who is Bill Noonan and what were some of his ideas that would "make the parade work for everyone"? I would love to hear them because no one else in town has been able to come up with something to satisfy everyone

I have a great idea. Maybe I can get a bar owner or 2 and some residents and we can out it on paper with the folks at city hall and see if maybe something can come to light out of it. If not, we tried right?

If the city were hosting the festival and people were entering a venue controlled by the city, they could charge money. But how are you legally going to levy a tax on people going into a bar? Could the city tax people entering your store? I think not.

A bar charges a cover and that is ok. If the bars and the town worked together and bars only allowed wrist banded people in then you have a resolution.

This idea would tend to have the bars full of only people who would drink to excess feeling it was well worth the $20, while it would also stoke attendance at house parties, and most tragically, discourage people who go to the bars for one or two drinks, that are not part of the problem, but rather something closer to law abiding citizens.
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To reiterate, my solution is to establish drunk tanks and enforce existing laws.
That really is about the size of it.
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While I understand the concept of moving the parade to a weeknight to lower the numbers of party-ers on any one calendar day, it contains problems by perhaps keeping lawlessness from reaching critical mass, but punishes the parade and it's core enthusiasts and not those creating problems. In a vacuum of other changes being made, such a change effectively says "we will have the same number of falling down drunks in Hoboken, we just won't have them all concentrated in the same 16 hour period".

just wanted to leave you a comment about what you have done and are continuing to do for the victims of the the jackson st fire i hope the best for them and for you going forward..take care and god bless

I think if the city charges a cover, the city can then be sued for a host of new things if someone gets injured.

All great ideas and things to consider. A meeting with the mayor should be had. Bounce ideas around and see what happens?

We are on basically the same page, O Large One. One important difference. I used to think it was terrible that the bars opened at 8AM or 10AM, but no longer feel so. Here's why. Only the true hardcores line up to open the bars. They are snookered by 12, yelling by 1, drooling by 2, falling down by 3 and asleep in their own vomit by 5. The town reverts to a normal Saturday by 7PM or so, which prevents the night scene from being amatuer hour. And all the grossest violations of law and deceny can be dealt with during daylight hours. Let this visiting swarm of locusts have the bars to themselves all morning and afternoon in daylight where law enforcement can keep an eye on them.

Yeah and the current plan just sucks. Moving the parade to rush hour on a Weds? Complete stupidity.

Current plan is terrible. The parade moves to a weekday during Rush Hour making it hard for the people who actually watch it. The people who come to town to overdo it will still show up on the first Saturday. And the people who flee town or get things destroyed on first Saturday will still be angry

Community volunteers would get their teeth kicked in by Vinny Boombats in his Jets jacket visitng from Yonkers. So far you have suggested charging a cover for entering town, licensing parties on someone's private property and now this. 0 for 3. If these are the ideas you alluded to earlier by Bill Noonan that would make "everything work" I think he is way off

No these are not his ideas. Volunteers are clearly dressed as volunteers and help do the little things. Nobody is saying a volunteer should be breaking up fights 1653. As for charging people to attend the day, I do believe you can charge $20 to come as long as the bars honor it. If they don't honor it and or agree upfront to it then its another reason to not have the day. It would be mutual and I am sure the bar owners would make minor changes to make all of this work. Permits for parties are actually allowed, I just found out. And Vinny Boombats wears a Giants jacket. Looks like you may be 0-4?

Just because some bloggers expect hand out for good reviews does not mean they all do.

Eric I have 2 young children and my child was heartbroken when she learned that she could not march in the parade because she will be in school. What time should the parade start, 3:30 p.m. in early March?

If you have never been publicly intoxicated, obnoxious or taken you child out to dinner after 8:00 p.m. you have a valid point. However, if you have ever urinated in public, cursed in public or walked around town in your (including college years) you are no different than those coming to town.

NYC seems to have survived millions of drunken Irish (on actual date) and Puerto Rican (usually on unknown weekend day) parade goers, why can't Hoboken?

Agreed townie. Why is it every other city handles their parades but Hoboken moves theirs (and in effect cancels it)?

The law states that bars can open at 6 am Monday thru Saturday and at noon on Sunday.

as far as the sexual assaults, we're any charges ever filed? On any given night in this town a crime like that can happen. On Sundays people would likely not drink as much as many have to go to the office the next day. If the day started at an hour where residents could do their own thing before the parade kicked off everything it may balance the rest of the day out? Starting everything at noon or 1pm allows the residents to do their thing and with the thought of people not drinking because they have to go to work one would hope that as the night goes forward, all ends well. Moving it means we have people both days. There was a Facebook page with 16,000 subscribers that notates Saturday this year. They are coming irregardless. Better to be prepared now and maybe move to Sunday to combat the excessive drinkers rather than just ignore it and let it go down anyway without a plan?

Jabberwock the contrarian, if you've been to a Carnival in New Orleans then you know it's no match on the debauchery /mayhem scale. That's a fact. My point was the tone of the celebrants- didn't say 'nicer', I said 'friendly'. Not like many who come to Hoboken to act out, piss and trash property. That's opinion.

Rory, we had 2 rapes on St. Patty's and 1 for the other 364 days.

Hobbs

I have feelings for a lot of the smaller mom and pop bars in town. The off the beaten path bars that don't sell food and rely on bar sales to stay afloat. Even since in surge of the new mega bars like 1rep, wolf, vill phouse and so on the little places are slowly becoming more vacant. And aside from the bars the little food places that look forward to the parade to cover them for months to come. These places pretty much built Hoboken and have some landmark qualities. Places like McMahons, Morans, Wilton House are slowly becoming obsolete. Figuring out a solution so these mom and pops can survive is needed.

Mr Chadwick (aka Midtown)

Before we go too far with that line of thought, I would like to see the stats on what kind of displacement of clientele the above referenced "smaller bars" have experienced due to the influx of "mega bars" as you refer to them. I don't think they are really after the same group of customers and I don't see them as being in direct competition. IMO the "mega bars" are after the young, get hammered weekender crowd, while the others you reference are what we called back in the day "neighborhood bars" who by and large don't want the transients who come, over-drink, and act inappropriately. I see the two type of bars as being able to co-exist like apples and oranges or for that matter 7 & 7. Honest question.

p1ywood

In the current economy people are looking to drink and for as cheap as possible. The new mega places, every night there is a special, buy 1 get 1, beat the clock, wings and a pitcher $10 etc etc. In a better economy, ok, sure yes I agree with you but these days people want savings. Anthropologie comes to town and they will sell the same brands everyone else sells for less because they have the money and resources to offer the same for less. This will hurt the smaller stores. Same goes for the bars, $5 beer at a mom and pop or $2 for same beer at a place that has more cash to spend and more space to fill in the customers. Have 3 drinks and you save $10. In the current economy the local businesses need all the help they can get. The residents do come first but the businesses that serve the residents need a fair shake too

Rory,

I understand your concerns and I am sure they too will be taken into consideration when trying towork out a better solution.

Hoboken has long resisted the Walmart syndrome and that is one of the things that continues to make it a special place to live.

Midtown-

I understand what you are saying but look at the macro. "Mega" chains in every industry change the landscape. There is no way to legislate out larger versions of something. Home Depot cripples the hardware store industry. CVS cripples the mom and pop pharmacy. But there will always be survivors. As they say in cybernetics, the entity with the largest variety of responses will control the system. For example, many people don''t know a person can be better off getting a prescription filled (for less!!) at a small local independent than at CVS. Or deal with a person who knows a bit more about them than a more impersonal chain. If I want an more authentic Irish bar experience, I will be at Moran's and not Wicked Wolf. I'll pay the ten dollars. It's their job to give me a good reason to. You yourself have carved out a niche market. The sad fact is the world will not sit still, and pray at the alter of "the way it used to be". As you know, in business there are the quick and the dead. But your sentimentality and melancholy for things past is shared. Hopefully the great ones will adapt and survive.

Hobbs-

I believe at this point the "Walmart syndrome" you evoke has so far passed Hoboken by because many of the mega-chains that have not taken root in Hoboken, such as Target, Trader Joe's or Walmart, have parking requirements for their new pad sites that Hoboken can not efficiently meet on the basis of a new construction square-footage cost analysis. I don't think it is because Hoboken has resisted them. If anything, the food service industry has resisted Hoboken since it is no secret that historically it take a year or more to open a new restaurant on Washington Street. Houlihan's don't play that. Coupled with, well, don't both of us have some way of getting to Newport Target or Home Depot by the Holland Tunnel for major purchasing runs where on-site parking numbers work for the big-box stores? It seems pretty clear to me that if Target or Home Depot or Walmart could get their hands on a full city block for the amount that was paid for the Hoboken west side Shop Rite land, they would do it immediately.

if it dont make dollars then it dont make sense

Oh I think everyone knows who the jerks are.

I don't think the parade needs to change at all. I think what needs to change for this to work in the minds of a growing demographic is the perception that a person can come to Hoboken, get plastered, run screaming drunk through the streets until all hours, and then drive home to Morristown and repeat the process the next night with no comeuppance. That has too long been a viable cog/ dirty little money-maker of the Hoboken economy. It was fine until a considerably sized percentage of residents wanted peace and quiet for their offspring more than the money spending excesses of the Viking helmet wearing "money burning a hole in their pocket"reveler. Or maybe more accurately, outgrew the desire to be a member of that helmeted group, perhaps had a kid, and for the first time in decades people decided in large enough numbers that they didn't conceptually want or couldn't afford a free-standing home in Westfield, and instead of them transplanting, began to think Hoboken should grow up with them and like them.

Many, many people came here first to party and then fell in love with the place, but for an entirely different set of reasons.

Plagiarized word for word: http://mainerestaurants.com/critics/restaurant-rating-system
Here are some definitions to consider:

5 Star *****: (Extraordinary) Transcendent. A one-of-a-kind, world-class experience.
4 Star ****: (Excellent) Superior. Memorable, high-quality menus frequently accompanied by exciting environs and/or savvy service.
3 Star ***: (Good) Solid places that beckon with generally appealing cooking.
2 Star **: (Fair) Just OK. A place not worth rushing back to. But, it might have something worth recommending: A view, a single dish, friendly service, lively scene.
1 Star *: (Poor) Below-average restaurants.

Maybe you should have stayed in college long enough to do more than copy and paste and condescend as if you had stayed in college.

Not everyone is Hoboken411.

Perry who? You mean the guy who gave great reviews to places that served glorified dog chow and ignored or panned the places that served decent food?

You just love making sh%t up. Where has the Mayor ever said she wanted to get rid of the Italian Festival?? SHE NEVER HAS!

You are such a hack BS artist. It's disgusting. Crap like this is why no one takes a word you ever post here seriously. You occasionally make a decent point. But it all gets lost in your lies.

Really? Does the mayor want to get rid of the Italian festival?

Not that I've ever heard. I remember when I was told by people who opposed Mayor Zimmer that she wanted to tear down the projects and I thought hey that's funny she never mentioned it. Turns out they had been lied to. I wonder who could have lied to them.

Yes, the mayor wants to get rid of the Italian festival and also it's no secret she wants to get rid of the Italian break, pizza and also Carlo's Bake Shop.

None of this is a secret because we all know Outofcontrol isn't a pathological liar. LOL

Outofcontrol really has serious issues. It is clear that outofcontrol has issues with the Italian Festival, but tries to blame it on the mayor. Like everything else he says. Outofcontrol is simply a hater. Hates justice, hates things being done properly without corruption.

But her solution is to hire tons more cops year round so we have more the 2-3 days a year when we really need them. That really isn't a terribly good solution.

You didn't name one problem that had to do w/ the parade. All have to do w/ out of control drunks which I would point out is a year round problem. The solution is a year round zero tolerance policy & not the cancellation of the parade.

Hoboken Questioner said "I look forward to her sending in the Storm troopers to arrest anyone wearing green on Saturday."

That is clearly a ethnically prejudiced remark. Hoboken Questioner should be banned from this site.

There were no rapes. Broken car windows are usually caused by the kids from the projects walking around an kicking off car mirrors. Street drunkenness - really, move to suburbs where they have no sidewalks.

Nobody needs a position / title to lead, they only need listeners. The parade can benefit all the retailers as well, self included PeoplePlease. It's a fact, people drink and they spend money. It all comes down to control. I can think if a few scenarios if followed to the T that can make the day work. I couldn't write it here because it would take 20 minutes and numerous posts. You are correct in saying that if a group gets together and hashes out some plans and presents it to the mayor calmly and professionally then maybe something will come out of it. You can not go in to it with the feeling "my way or no way" You need parade committee spokesperson, bar owner spokesperson, retail spokesperson, resident spokesperson, public safety spokesperson to all sit down and throw things around and devise a few solid plans. When you unite as a small group of people all together in trying to make something work it shows something. The ears that listen are more likely to have stronger consideration as compared to one group that wants one thing. Best outcome is parade that works for the community, worst scenario is no parade and at the moment there is neither but posted thoughts and ideas. Put something together, get some people rounded up, draw it up and present it.

It has never been a choice between a parade or no parade.

It has always been a balancing act between what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to Hoboken as a whole as to what happens arround the actual parade.

That balance didn't work last year and a new attempt at balancing must be made.

What is finacially beneficial for bar owners does not translate to what is beneficial to Hoboken.

Anyone fairly looking at the present Administration clearlt understands that they already encourage a diversity of input before any decision is made, That said the Mayor has also shown when a final decision has to be made she ready, willing and able to make the decission.

@Hobbs

If a plan is made and it worked and everything went smooth and people respected everyone else and things didn't get out of hand, would you welcome it in 2013?

Rory,

Again no one is looking to end the parade. Those who say if they can't connect it with a bar owners payday it is over are playing their usual political games.

Last year Councilman Giacchi, Chief Falco and the Administration thought they had a plan that could work. It helped but wasn't enough to balance out the problems.

The bar owners last year were repeatedly asked to contribute to the $125,000.00 plus cost of the parade weekend and they collectively refused to give anything but a pitance to cover the costs and some business leaders decided to turn to their usual political hate tweets to inflame the issue.

They way I understand how it stands now is the Administration is doing exactly what it said it would do if the parade day continued to spin out of control and it is one of the rare times that the entire City Council agrees.

And how much did the city get from the parking authority or from citations issued on St. Patty's to defray their costs? If you are going to claim the city is out money b/c of St. Patty's then you need to prove it to the bar owners to convince them to contribute.

As for the parade, if you move the parade to a day when the bar owners are unwilling to sponsor any floats or marchers, where the bagpipers can't come b/c of their day jobs, where the majority of residents are at work & probably can't make it then you are in effect cancelling the parade.

Where did i say the City was out of money? What I said is when asked to chip in to cover the cost to the taxpayers the bar owners didn't reach into their pockets. Even with all other sources of revenue were added in the cost far exceeded the income and the problems tipped the scales.

If some people decide to not participate in Hoboken's St Pat's Parade then we will have a smaller, safer, community based parade.

There is no cost to the taxpayers if the city recoups its expenses through means other than relying on taxpayer provided funds. Every garage was full, the PA wrote a ton of tickets and booted tons of cars & almost 300 citations were issued by the HPD. The city made a fortune that day. Like the bar owners, I want to see proof of that and a full accounting of every dime the city made that weekend and how that compares to some other Saturday that time of year before I will believe the taxpayers paid 1 penny for the extra staffing needed that day. I just don't believe it the taxpayers were out anything and if the mayor is going to ask the bar owners to cover the cost to the taxpayers then she has to prove that the taxpayers actually paid the costs before complaining about how the bar owners aren't covering it b/c I am skeptical that there is anything at all to cover. How complicated a concept is that for you?

Red,

That is a big IF.

It is my understanding the the $125,000.00 is what it cost the taxpayers after all was said and done.

I would point out that for every ticket or citation writen their is also a coresponding cost and the bill for all the OT and bringing in people adds up very quickly.

Your understanding is wrong. The $125K figure is before any offsetting revenues from parking garages, parking tickets, booted cars or $2,000 tickets for drunk idiots.

Red,

I don't think I am wrong.

You should publish your numbers.

I believe the PR parade was held on Sundays, correct? If I am not mistaken, they had some big "headliner" marchers (NYPD and NYFD Bags and Pipes, etc...).
If a town like PR can get headliner marchers to march on Sunday, why can't the Hoboken Parade organizers change the date from Saturdays?
Why is it a Saturday or nothing, at all? Doesn't make sense.

Head turning? Last year wasn't every cop on duty and the county sheriffs called in? The problem is that they were overwhelmed. I think the hope is that moving the parade with diminish participation enough that the

1) County sheriff,

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2) Hoboken police,

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3) Hoboken fire,

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4) Hoboken ambulance and

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5) Hoboken class II police officers

will be able to handle it.

That's a lot of resources to handle just one event. More than any other Hoboken event, other than perhaps the 4th of July.

Well as I live and breathe, much like a stopped clock is right twice a day, I must say a agree with that last comment by prosbus. The parade itself has little to do with the price of tea in China. The fact that people expect to go to Hoboken and get away with the most heinous drunk and disorderly comport is the problem, since the majority of them are proven right.

Same here P1y. Prosbus is correct

Write more $2K tickets year round and the people who misbehave will either learn to behave or go elsewhere.

Redrider765, also let's not forget about that drunk tank idea. That's a winner, a problem one can't buy one's way out of. A great equalizer.

It isn't a drunk tank. It is an expensive hotel w/ a concrete floor for a bed and steel bars that is reserved for special guests who get to pay $2K a night ;-)

Please bother to read what you post a link to. Your own article says one of them happened on Friday.

RR- are you suggesting that Friday night was BEFORE the parade and therefore can't be blamed ON the parade? OMG. :)

No prosecutions to date - I wonder if it was because this was post-drunk-sex-regret?

The first alleged attack happened early Saturday morning. A woman told police she was at a house party and was assaulted there. The prosecutor's office said she declined to press criminal charges but had asked for a medical exam.

The second incident happened on Saturday. Prosecutors say a 23-year-old woman said she was brought to a residential building by a man she met at the parade and raped.

According to the prosecutor's office, alcohol played a factor in both incidents.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Authorities-Investigate-Two-Sexual-Assaults-During-St-Patricks-Day-Parade-117561058.html

You read some of the comments here and you get the feeling the same people would have been for the Volstead Act of 1919.

How about you first prove the city doesn't already cover the parade costs from the incremental revenues it gets on parade day from citations, tickets, booted cars & at capacity parking garages before you start claiming the city needs to find a way to pay parade costs..

Red,

It is my understanding that when this was discussed last year, the $125,000.00 cost to the Hoboken taxpayer for the St. Pat's weekend was a figure after all incremental revenues are figured in.

Hobbs, that is flat wrong. The $125K figure is the total cost to the city, not the net cost to the taxpayers. Your understanding is just wrong. Not only that, but that figure was roughly cited by the mayor both before and right after last year's parade. Now how the hell would she know how much the city might get in fines a couple months before the parade and just days after the fact? She had no clue what the actually cost to the taxpayers would be back then. All she knew was how much the city planned on spending based on how much they intended to staff up for the event.

I don't care. The point is before you start complaining that the bars need to help pick up the tab for the cost, you need to prove that the cost isn't already being picked up! You haven't done that. You and everyone else that hates this event completely ignore how much the city is able to defray the costs from revenues it generates that day.

I stand by my understanding that the $125,000.00 cost is net after all is said and done and those who profitted the most did not step up when the hat was passed.

If you disagree then you need to do the work to prove your challange.

.

I

You can stand by it all you want but that will never change the fact that the city has never disclosed how much money it rakes in from all the fines it issues on that or any other day. Hobbs, they issued 115 tickets for open containers last year. That is a $2,000 fine for crying out loud! Even if the city only kept 1/3 of that, that is over $75K the city made. They probably made another $60K writing tickets, booting cars and stuffing the garages to capacity. You got another 100 traffic citations and another almost 200 other citations they also made money on. They were raking it in hand over fist.

And no, I don't need to prove anything. If the city wants the bars to pony up $ to cover uncovered costs, then the city has to prove to them those costs weren't paid through other sources of funding like HPD issued citations. To this day, the city has completely refused to do this.

Hobbs, then STFU about the costs already because clearly you don't give a rat's ass about the costs.

Red, when you use "STFU" and "rat's ass" in a post we can see you are someone who's opinion on this topic warrants thoughtful consideration.

No Hobbs, the point is you aren't thinking about it. Your head is so far up Zimmer's ass, all you smell is her farts. You haven't thought critically about how much cost the city actually incurs b/c all you want to do is cancel the whole event.

WOW.

So you have sunk to trying personal insults.

I don't want to cancel the whole event.

if you or anyone has a rational plan to have the event without the mayhem that we have seen lets hear it.

DUH - been saying it the whole thread. Issue those fat $2,000 fines to the drunk idiots year round so they learn some manners. Do that year round and they will learn to behave. The problem in this town w/ St. Patty's isn't the parade and it isn't the booze. It is the perception that year round a person can act like a complete moron, disregard the law and there are no consequences. Give people some really expensive consequences to think about and they will behave.

You are rather thick headed there Scott. You still miss the point. The city can't plead poverty if they don't disclose how much they are making off this event.

Red,

The City is not crying poverty that is your projection.

The bar owners and those making the money should help pay for the costs of the problems they profit from.

When all the bars kick in is a total of $6500. fair minded people have a problem with that.

Pay for what? If the city covers its costs then there is absolutely nothing what so ever to pay for.

Hobbs - BTW, I think you have a problem w/ just having a good time in general which is why you would rather just cancel the whole darn thing than police it better.

So Madison Monroe finds the level of mayhem acceptable. I guess on any issue you can find one person to advocate a position. MM by any chance are you the one out of ten dentists that doesn't recommend brushing.

If it were only a little vomit, pee and a few offensive tshirts there wouldn't be a problem.

Wow MM petty theft on a random night seems pretty heinous.

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The Pearl River St Pat's parades were, and I'm sure still are, great. I recall seeing Gerry Adams attend once. The annual Piper's Ball was a blast, though I've never seen a school gymnasium fill up with cigarette and cigar smoke before or since. Those were some very good times.

— At 2:35 a.m. Sunday, Kyle Thompson, 28, of Pearl River, was arrested after he failed a field sobriety test at the scene and a breathalyzer test
in the police mobile processing van. He was issued an appearance
ticket to appear in Town Court on Jan. 16, 2012, to answer
the charge of Driving While Intoxicated, a felony. Police said his charge is a felony because Thompson was convicted of DWI in January 2010.

This place sounds awful, a baby jesus and a DUI in the same week!! I'm never going to Rockland County again lol

I'm all for St. Paddy's Parade Day being on the first Saturday. And I tend to agree that most people don't have first hand witness accounts of the "peeing, crapping, screwing, mayhem" that I hear oft repeated on message boards (GA being the exception). I also think that it seems like a lot of people who used to be the huge partiers walking around falling down drunk that day have now turned 30 & decided the fun needs to end.
BUT, I'll be damned if I will continue to virtually argue all night about something so meaningless against people whom I don't even know. For the love of God, get a hobby people!
And I will be hosting my St Paddy's Parade Day party on the first Saturday of March just like every other year. My friends will come and eat, drink & be merry. We'll play beer pong, act like college fratboys and then call it a night around 8pm. Oh the horror! We're so immature! OMG We're going to have fun regardless of the town's stance on partying!

@ HobokenOwl - Can I come?

I've been drinking since I was 18 and before I was in college. With my parents knowledge after the fact. When I told them about the unauthorized party the staff had at camp (after the campers had all gone home) we talked about responsible drinking.

I drink. I have a good time. I am aware that I'm just as responsible for my actions drunk as I am sober. I have never done anything I truely regretted after drinking (I don't count the rare head ache the next day as a regret.).

Why do some people have to lose all self-respect and respect to others when they drink? Why do people have to drink until they need their stomach pumped? Stomach pump, never on my list of good time. Neither vomiting.

@rory- sure. As long as you realize that the Robin costume is not appropriate attire for a St. Patty's Day party, and everyone who attends my party is required to wear green/irish tshirts & engaging in an act of civil disobedience. ;-)

Your requests can easily be met. Count me in!

No one ever even suggested the parade be ended.

Please remember Councilpersons Castellano, Mason, Russo, Giacchi Marsh, Balla and Mello along with a large segment of the public after last years problems called for an end to the mayhem that has surounded it.

Mox was this on St Pat's day last year?

yep

Mox I've heard that even with having just about every cop on duty that day and paying the County for sheriffs the uniformed services were still overwhelmed. What I was told is anecdotal and not backed by any data I have but I think it's safe to say either they were overwhelmed or the uniformed leadership just isn't effective.

.

Perhaps with shifting the parade, hopefully lessening the crowds, and having a new Public Safety Director certain determinations can be made this year that can improve uniformed services going forward.

They wrote only 300 citations and only 115 were for open containers. A trained chimp could have written 50 in 1 shift on that day. I doubt that was the issue at all.

The cops also got a few hundred phone calls but given the low number of arrests, I find it hard to believe it was much more than people calling to complain about noise related issues most of the time. Blame the curmudgeons for occupying the HPD's time.

Which is why they really need to ignore the BS complaints from the curmudgeons. I am all for tons of $2K fines year round though. I think a ticket like that passed out freely to the drunk idiots is the only way to get some sanity back in this town on weekends. They probably could pass out a good 50 or so a night just in front of Lana.

I'm wondering how many of the trouble makers even go to the parade, or do they skip it and find someplace to get their drink on?