Being that I personally spoke with the DEP multiple times, this process was handled very poorly by the DEP. They were afraid of being sued by Applied and caved to their threats. In addition, the mayor asked the DEP for a public forum for residents to speak about the project and the DEP decided they did not want to allow us to have that option. Of course, beth mason did not even bother writing a letter to the DEP like every other city official did in this instance.

The next step is the city needs to sue the DEP similar to what North Bergen did to get a DEP approved application overturned when it was incorrectly approved similar to this one.

Let them build it. That building has always been in the Shipyard's master plan so it's no surprise. Let's not waste money trying to sue to block it. It doesn't affect anyone except the Tea Building residents, and they always knew a building could someday block their view. We can always use the extra tax base--even if it is a Pilot it'll still pay city taxes--and the extra customers for local stores. We have enough empty spots around town where the anti-development, roll-up-the-drawbridge crowd shot down fine projects (1600 Park is just one example). Didn't Dawn celebrate the news of Hoboken jumping from 40,000 to 50,000 residents? Well, how are we going to make it to 60,000 if we kill every new project? Remember, at one time we were close to 80,000.

We should recall Beth Mason's BFF Michael Russo infamous quote. "It all depends on who's developers we are talking about your or MINE. " :-)

The first thing that came to me when saw the council voted it down was that the majority must have some moral issue and that Castellano and Russo must not have gotten paid by the developer yet. Terrible statement of their character that this is the first thing going through many people's minds.

why would any development here be PILOTed anymore? hoboken doesn't need to attract development, so why lose the revenue?

What has coucilwoman Mason said about this? Ohhhhh NOTHING. She owes Applied for the only votes she got last election

Hey Tea Building folks, register to vote and campaign against the Mason's and Paetzold's of the world

Sorry. I am confused. Dawn Zimmer had the City Council very clearly vote on a Resolution to stop the Monarch but now the project is proceeding. Why is this happening? Dawn promised to stop this thing.

Eric Kurta, YOU are a Zimmer Political Operative. She put you on the hospital board in exchange for campaign contributions. You tried running for council with no platform other than "Dawn Zimmer supports me". Please recall that you were overwhelmingly rejected by the voters. But look at the previous posts from some of your friends on this very string, and consider how hypocritical it is for you to say anything about someone inserting names. You and your people throw random names into every post to try to smear people, and then never bother to acknowledge when you're frequently wrong. Zimmer has made a substantial public push to claim she is fighting the Monarch project, so how is it inappropriate for someone to question her on the actual scope and prospective results of her efforts?

The mayor's impact is felt by her work with the Planning Board and its members who she has had a role in putting up additional people. The efficiency is not in doing legal battle at the State level but here in town and tending to the matter.

The question you want to ask is why did the Councilwoman for the area remained silent and did nothing to intercede on the developer's obvious effort. But you already know the answer to all of this.

Mayor Zimmer was already on the record oppossing the Monarch project while Beth Mason stayed mum and ignored inquirires from concerned second ward residents.

None of that is an accident.

The way to stop the project is right here in Hoboken.

Very consistent. The City Council has no authority over the project, but its all Beth Mason's fault. That, my friend, is a "Hoboken Answer".

Within the last several weeks a letter was sent by the Administration to the DEP outlining additional information in an attempt to dissuade the Christie Administration's approval of the project. I leave it to others to speculate as to why tresidentsd wishes have been ignored with the construction of the gas pipeline and this break with past practices of not building residental units on existing piers. Additionally, I may be mistaken, but I believe the Monach has an application before the County Planning Board.
Perry

You Zimmerist Kool-aid drinkers are too much. This is obviously Zimmer and her pal Christie's fault. They misled everybody by tricking Applied into reelecting Beth Mason just so it would look like Zimmer wasn't in bed with Applied. Beth had shrewdly decided to throw the election because she knew that as a private citizen she could use her resources to stop this project dead in its tracks, but Zimmer and Applied figured it out and launched their evil scheme to keep her in office just to foil her brilliant and noble plan.

Zimmer and Christie must be stopped. By saving the hospital they have cleverly diverted attention from Christie's failure create more parking and from the fact that he has done nothing to return the surplus to taxpayers.

also, it's raining today, why is mayor zimmer allowing that to happen? why isn't she getting christie to make it sunny and warm?

Do any of you folks actually live anywhere near the Tea building or 15th street? The area is blighted, and is privately-owned land, has been for over decade when they converted the tea building into apartments. I have watched a nice community blossom up here over the last few years and welcome more new families to move in. For this project they should include more 3 Bedrooms apartments and condos. Those have been selling in the 1 million + range in the Shipyard so if this project is built properly they can get the higher prices for units. It needs to be developed, some more parkland would be ok but really more places for dogs to crap is not what we need. We need more taxpayers to spread out the load preferably non-piloted condos. Another 500 or so families paying their fare share in taxes could mean upwards of 7 million dollars a year into Hoboken's coffers which can be used to improve standard of living in this town for everyone.

Red,
Your reflexive defense in the absense of attack is clinicial Paranoia. My letter stated facts not attacks. The pleas of the residents of Hoboken, both elected and not, fell on deaf ears in Trenton. Boink, since the refrenda over the Port Authority Property that is Piers A&C plus 333 River etc. it has been accepted planning not to build residental over the River on either new or existing piers. Using the existing Piers for open space not residential was always contemplated. Don't care who slept on it, only sure that acquistion cost are escalation as we approach next set of approvals.
Perry

rtrux - I have watched the area develop. The area is wonderful now, filled with families and businesses,and it wasn't always that way. I remeber when it looked like this. http://www.h-mag.com/files/2011/02/SHIPYARDS-033BW.jpg

it was a post industrial blighted mess of rubble strewn empty lots and decrepit waterfront factories. The corner where Applied wants to build now is still a mess along with vacant lot behind City Bistro. Aren't those the last few lots to be developed? Did they not build and renovate nearly a dozen new buildings uptown over the last 14 years on blighted land? Isn't the area better now because of the development?

Boink - while I respectfully disagree with your assertion that adding 500 taxpaying families inherently benefits the City, I am also confused by your math.

You said 500 families paying their share will generate $7 million in tax revenues. I have a two bedroom apartment that was recently estimated a local broker to be worth about $700,000. My tax assessment is a little over $230,000 and my municipal taxes are about $4500 (total tax bill around $11,000). 500 apartments like mine will generate something like $2.25 million in taxes.

Your $7 million seems to be more than a wee bit off. Did you feel your argument so weak that it required a bit of fibbing to make it palatable? If so, we have found something we agree on!!!!

The Shipyard gradually developed lot by lot. Each development project required a variance for approval. Open space was promised in exchange for these variances. This open space constituted the peers to the east of the Tea Building. However, this promise was never formalized into a binding legal agreement. And for about 10 years there was no follow up. Dawn was mayor for 2 of these 10 years.

Now all of a sudden Applied wants to develop on the land. Zimmer screwed up by having the City Council vote no on a resolution against the development project because the Council acted out of turn. Carroll Marsh wisely excused herself from that debacle. The Council's decision could have legal implications down the road.

Now we are stuck with a big threat. The 5th Amendment has something called a takings clause that is generally applied to eminent domain scenarios. But courts have held that an unjust taking also occurs when a City uses its zoning power in such a way as to deprive the lawful owner of the use of a property. This always results in lawsuits and damages which is where we are heading.

And in the end we will have my good and just compatriot Mr. Belfiore decrying needless lawsuits…and on the other end of the aisle will be some smarty pants who explains that $700,000 in legal bills is justified…everyone will point fingers and the residents will get hosed. (Don’t know where I got that $700,000 figure from…hmm...must have been a subconscious thing).

Fib? My math was simple 500 x $14k = $7 Million which is most likely underestimated. Newer waterfront 2Br waterfront condos are paying it is closer to $16k or more so it could be higher with 3Br new waterfront condo. Your $11k total property taxes for an older building that will need to be reassessed eventually, break it down however you like the taxes are still $11k.

Here is what the Shipyard is selling for and they aren't paying what you are. There are 3BR apartments paying $29k in taxes in the Shipyard, which is my whole point, they should build real nice 3 + BRs at the Monarch and sell them like they have done at Maxwell Place no PILOT and maximize taxes for Hoboken.

http://www.livingonthehudson.com/maxwell-place-sold-data

The land in question has been vacant for decades and hasn't produced an ounce of worth to this town, however you prefer to keep it a blighted mess? While we are at it lets stop all development and allow Hoboken to return to the 3rd world like jerk water joke it was in the 1970s out of spite for some politician who wasn't even around when Joe Barry started the development uptown.

We are never going to spend less, NEVER. Repeat it because it is true, the unfunded liabilities guarantee it. It we do not develop, taxes will go up for everyone guaranteed, you cannot run a growing city like Hoboken on less than we are spending now even with privatization.

Take another look at this empty lot. Another decade or more of nothingness guaranteed because some people cannot see past their nose.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=15th+street+hoboken&ll=40.754702,-74.023352&spn=0.001918,0.003235&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=15th+St,+Hoboken,+New+Jersey+07030&gl=us&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6

Its actually hard to write a serious response to this stuff. Boinky - the "land" in question is a broken down pier and the municipal tax revenue would be more like $2 million than your absurd claim of $7 million and it would be eaten up and then some by the costs of adding 500 families (1000-2000 people) with kids, cars etc.

But thank you for reminding everyone that people like you are still here.

We agree then so you must be people like me.What agree on is Hoboken can get millons in tax revenue every year from a broken down pier. Talk about monetizing useless assests!

Don't forget other properties will have lost their NYC view and become less valuable, hence less taxable. The net tax change is likely under 2 million dollars and that's before you have to provide services to the new residents.

Green -- since you often bring this up unprovoked, it must really bother you that I embarrass you over and over by pointing out something that you didn't know--that your own taxes have gone up 3% since the day your beloved Dawn took office. Since you said your municipal taxes are $4,500, that means you're paying $131 more a year than when Dawn took over. Go pull out your tax bills if you don't believe me. You're forgetting that the Big Lie doesn't work if people keep coming up with the facts to combat it.
And Rtrux, I don't think you know anything about uptown, much less live up there. The residents of the Monarch would get on the bus at 14th and Bloomfield if they're heading to Midtown or 14th and Washington if they're heading to the Path, not 12th and Washington.
Boink -- thank god there's someone here sticking up for the taxpayers and sanity with all these crazies intent on rolling up the drawbridge. Green and the others typify the anti-business attitude that thinks a $5,000 fee for food trucks is fair.

(sorry it's late ... i hit send too fast,,,goodnight)
Ms. Pied Piper, you are the one injecting county taxes into the equation. MUNICIPAL taxes went up. That's a fact. Some owners of newer homes got lower bills because they got their homes reassessed after the real estate market crashed. But the vast majority of us Hoboken homeowners saw our municipal taxes go up. Perhaps it would help the discussion if the people who don't get tax bills because they are renters or have moved to some leafy suburb would just stop adding their uninformed 2 cents.

Frank - congratulations. It seems in Madison you've found a woman who appears to be your intellectual equal. I wish the two of you all the happiness your imaginary world has to offer. Maybe the imaginary $7 million in tax revenue will help send your children to an imaginary college some day. LOL!!!