Fact: the schools are now test all the students just not the ones that will score will.

They using additional tests to see which students need additional help.

I will vote for kids first, Gods willing.

BTW, congratulation to Gregory Bond who is the first person to post something political on Hoboken Patch since Sunday evening. Little surprise from someone who makes baseless accusations to be held to any type of decency or decorum. He also felt "compelled" to post in support of Kids First decision to fire Paula Ohaus. Take it from where it comes with this guy-- he's a Kool-Aid drinker if there ever was one.

There is nothing baseless about his accusations. It is a fact 2 of the MF slate never voted in a BOE election. It is a fact at least 2 never went to a meeting before deciding to run. It is a fact the people behind MF ran a dirty campaign. It is a fact that 297 page audit and the findings in that audit happened under the watch of the people backing MF and they are upset w/ how KF has cleaned up the BOE and had gotten rid of all that wasteful spending revealed in that audit. And it is a fact that b/c of the 10R scam, previous boards hid how bad the schools are and now that policy is no longer in effect we can see the true damage done by decades of mismanagement by people like the backers of MF.

You just don't like those facts.

Petro, if nothing else you have cultivated a reputation for civility.

Lending your ID out to a fat, angry troll will inevitably lead to people taking you for a fat, angry troll. Since you've gone to the trouble of at least seeming like a gentleman, why are you letting HER do this?

Is Liz smart enough to understand what an illegal campaign contribution is? How about smart enough to understand that midnight flyers are a form of littering and TV trucks paid for by a major supporter must be declared on campaign finance reports? And is she smart enough to figure out how much she will be reviled if her campaign hires hundreds of street workers who conveniently enough vote by mail and get checks from her campaign? And finally, is she smart enough to figure out that the people backing her who engage in these sorts of behaviors systematically election after election are up to absolutely no good?

She is not real smart or she just no longer cares about doing what is right. Which ever the case, she has no business being on the BOE and is just not to be trusted at this point.

Well THAT sure didn't sound like a propaganda post.... Ditz.

Have they told you up at 1200 Washington that when you sound that psychotic it turns people of normal intelligence against whomever you support? Guess not.

Guilt by association. A cornerstone of the campaign run by the incumbents who are not done hiring all their cronies.

I think one independent BOE candidate said it best when she said, you can't "Move Forward" with the corruption of the past.

Enough, guilt by association is the campaign Mason, Raia or Russo and their goons were running w/ those midnight flyers and that video truck. And as for hiring cronies, I seem to remember that under the previous board we had dozens more people on the payroll many of which were cronies. Those jobs no longer exist and those people are no longer employed by the BOE. So if you don't want more cronies on the payroll, I just don't get why you think people who used to employ dozens don't want taxpayers to go back to having to hire more cronies.

Bottom line:

If you wouldn't vote for the OLD GUARD politicos backing and paying to for Move Forward to be on the ballot you shouldn't vote for them.

If Hoboken history has shown us anything it is their support has a very high price.

NOPe,

When they agreed to front for the likes of Raia, Russo, Mason, Castellano they showed their true colors.

Put a twinkie in it, bimbo.

Fact: Liz ran for school board before Ohaus left. This is her second or third time running for school board.

A lot of misinformation about this testing stuff with 2 primary purposes...to take attention away from the record of Kids First and to blame others for the miserable handling of the public schools by Kids First (especially in test scores). The reality is that there is no significant difference in math or language scores before or after the 10r program. SAT's have gone down. Graduation rates have gone down. HHS is a school in need of improvement. And ALL this is blamed on some policy of 4-5 years ago when BOTH Minutillo and Markle were on the Board but had no issue with the policy? Ridiculous. Kids First simply do not want to take responsibility for the test scores of the district-- test scores they promised would rise under their leadership 4 years ago.

As for the DINI status, a great deal goes into getting that designation and it is a reflection of systemic and chronic failure over a few years not just test scores. Kids First was in control for 2 and a half years before Hoboken received its DINI designation. The responsibility falls squarely upon their shoulders for the DINI status. A responsibility they do not want to bear.

Yeah so after not testing all the kids for 10 years, they test them all and guess what happens?

You also forgot to note that only 35% of the kids had to pass the test way back when the 10r was in effect- now 91% have to pass that same test.

So lets recap- you guys didnt test the kids who would have failed, and the passing rates were higher. Now that all kids are taking the test,( including the ones who likely would have failed), the passing rates and "graduation " rates are lower.

And some how, knowing all of this, you want to blame the lowered passing and graduation rates on a school board?

UNBELIEVABLE!

Regarding the "reflection of systemic and chronic failure over a few years" SInce the schools (student percentage rates for passing)were "failing" in 2007, 08 and 09, and considering; it takes 3 years for dini to become a district status- would there be any responsibility on the superintendent who was in the seats for the first 3 years of failing?

You, sir, are an embarrassment to the educational profession.

pdq- The letter says CLEALY that ALL students were tested---what differed was WHEN they were tested not IF. So, you are wrong on that point. Second you are purposely confusing NCLB criteria with local state testing administration procedures. That is wrong as well. Finally, the fact remains that under almost 4 yrs of KIDS FIRST, the state testing scores are lower than ever, SAT's are lower than ever, graduation rate is below state average, and over 90% of all students attend a school that failed to meet Adequate Yearly Progress criteria.

pdq- DINI status was designated in November of 2011-- over 31 months into the Kids First super majority leadership of the Hoboken Board of Education. Responsibility for plunging the district into DINI status rests solely on the shoulders of Kids First and the educational decisions they made and continue to make.

Try to spin as much as you may- there is no denying that schools were not passing the nclb standards in 07, 08 and 09, that is except HHS, which when the kids who were likely to fail didnt take the HSPA.

You are disgusting. Send your college students over here to read this site and see what they think of this?

Was 10r a smart way to make the district passing rates look great and avoid a DISTRICT becoming DISTRICT in need of improvement (vs school in need of improvement)? heck yeah.
Was it honest? No way.

pdq- The district was not a failing district in 2008 or 2009. Remember, the district Kids First inherited had only 1 school that failed to make AYP. Under Carter/Rusak/Kids First that quickly expanded to the whole district except for Calabro and that quickly turned into DINI. DINI is a crown for Kids First to wear, and only Kids First.

Also, I don't know what you mean by my college students-- I'm a simple person and never had the opportunity to attend college due to family finances let alone actually teach a college class!-- but I am a concerned citizen and I try to pay attention to what is happening in the schools.

Of course not- the high school was passing, wasnt it?

oh right, except not all of the hs students were taking HSPA back then, were they?

WRONG! one school-
it takes 2 testing years of failure to meet benchmarks (3 by the time it is publicly available online).
wallace didnt meet the benchmark but was considered safe haven. Ergo- they were still failing to meet the benchmark but gained 10 points that particular year- .
calabro failed to meet the benchmark , but was in year 1 so it wasnt sini
connors failed to meet the benchmark and was sini 9more than 2 years of failing ot meet the benchmark).
Demarest had too few students to be held accoutable to nclb standards.
HHS- You guys had the 10r scam going there (as admitted by you and hte principal) so that passed the nclb benchmark/passing percentages needed.

*HHS- since then, demarest was relocated back in the HHS, so their scores now count, and all kids were tested.

*also notable for all schools was that the percentage of students who must pass to meet the benchmarks were lower than they are now

You guys are dispicable
Just face it, passkey- in 2009,after raslowski got his new job offer, you guys decided- it's time to follow the law and test all kids.

http://education.state.nj.us/rc/nclb/ayp.html

Journey- no one was swept under the rug and the accusation of such is absurd. Under Kids First more student than EVER now take the alternative high school test for graduation. Why is that? No child was ever treated like dirt-- the only piece of dirt around here appears to be you. You are both misinformed and reprehensible.

PetroKey, why oh why are you letting this vindictive beeatch use your ID. You were known for your civility. She has sunk to calling the likes of the ever-gentle Journey "a piece of dirt."

Did she tell you she was going to do that with YOUR credibility?

If it wasn't cheating, they never would have gotten rid of it. But at least now you can't pretend the program never existed and never distorted the results. At least now you can't pretend the results of the testing today are comparable in the past when 10r was in effect.

By the way, I personally think they should have left the students back and made them stay in HS an extra year or two. Better to keep them back and help them learn than to socially promote them and insure they graduate w/o the skills needed to get a job.

Not cheating not culling- just a "remedial program" that went on from 1998-2008- ending in 2009.
So kids who were having a hard time passing werent taking hte HSPA tests until 2009.
Then you want everyone to look at the 2009-2011 test scores, where ALL kids took the test and blame kids first for the scores being lower.

Got it.

Quite the contrary ojo, he is admitting that it did occur but is referring to it as a "remedial program".
He discovered the "remedial 10r program" in 08 and prepared the kids for the test by removing remedial math courses.

You can't make this stuff up.

pdq- read the Letter, it clearly states changed one remediation program for another. Nothing about eliminating remediation. Also, it is clear now who ended the 10r program and it was not Kids First. It is also clear no students was retained, all graduated in 4 years, and everyone took the test. Also, this was a practice only done in the high school.

Sound familiar petkey?

Lorenzo Garcia pleaded guilty in June to two counts of fraud and faces up to 3½ years in prison at sentencing Friday. Garcia admitted to devising a scheme to keep low performing students from taking the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills test. Some of the students would be held back in the ninth grade while others would be told to drop out so they would not be among the 10th graders tested. Six other co-conspirators helped Garcia. The investigation continues.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/05/former-el-paso-schools-superintendent-faces-35-years-in-prison-for-test/#ixzz2C18QJXNz

Carter explicitly stated that there were no remedial math classes in the HHS nor 8th grade algebra in the district. This is horrendous and falls squarely on you and your buddy. But damn skippy, we had an hvac director making 96k, an asst BA making 125k and an asst to the superintendent making 144k, while living in Texas, all collecting healthcare and pension credits.

You can call it whatever you like- the public reads it for what it is. I can't thank you enough for finally coming forward with this scandal and presenting it as you did. Hopefully the authorities that be or the press won't fry your arses for coming clean. The authorites in Texas arrested the superintendent who did this identical "program'. Good luck to you and thanks again for coming clean.

I got that he was admitting the program existed. What he doesn't get is that you just can't compare results from when the 10r scam was in effect to when everyone is tested. Clearly that remediation effort was a complete failure b/c the test scores just went down, down, down as more and more students were tested. In fact, the only thing that seems to have been remediated by the time KF was in charge, every kid was being tested and the BOE could no longer hide how poorly the kids were doing.

By the way, why are you so proud of the graduation of kids after 4 years of HS who clearly need to be in HS an extra year or two? Personally I think no child should graduate w/o the skills necessary to compete and I am perfectly happy to have kids held back that need to be held back. Personally I think the test scores would be a hell of a lot better if more kids were held back, more kids were required to attend summer school and more emphasis were placed on teaching kids than just moving them up and out. I could care less about getting kids out of HS in 4 years. The job of the school system is to educate kids, not boot them out on the streets w/ a poor education after 4 years of warehousing them in high school. But I guess when a person's priority is more about returning control of the BOE to people who care more about power than educating kids, a guy like Passkey will focus more on manipulated statistics than on educating children.

The letter says every student was tested. Read the letter.

I did read the letter and every kid was not tested every year going back prior to the phase out of the 10r scam. That means the test scores after the phase out are absolutely without a shadow of a doubt not at all comparable to the scores when 10r was in effect. So you can stuff it already on the scores. Now please, lets just wait and see how many votes you guys bought and see if you guys cheated enough to win already. Nothing really matters until we find out the final results.

Cut the BS:
what you said was "all either eventually took the HSPA test OR THE SPECIAL REVIEW ASSESSMENT (SRA)"

Read more: Hudson Reporter - No one ‘cheated’ on state test scores

You are criticising the HSPA results for 09-11. Not the overall results. In 09-11 ALL students took the HSPA test in 11th grade as 11th graders, In 2009, students who were identified for intense remediation and identified to receive extra instruction in order to help improve performance on the HSPA test" werent left out of HSPA testing in 11th grade, like they were from 1998-2008.

You know, at first I appreciated your coming forward- now I am beginning to hope those Federal Texas authorities who arrested the last superintendent might want to l add this to their portfolio.

pdq- you are carrying a lot of water for the Kids First group these days, aren't you? Look- more students than ever before are taking the alternative HSPA test at HHS these days. 4 years after the 10r program ended. In addition, SAT scores are in the 300's 4 years after Kids First took over. Honest? I don't care if they are honest--- what are they in the 300's? I know the current excuse making the rounds is the number of special education students in the district. No end to the excuses is there? Prior to the letter in the Reporter this weekend, the Kids First online scoundrels were claiming they ended the 10r program--- that turns out to be a lie. There literally is no end to the lies is there? And finally, all students do not take state mandated tests every year. Another fact you purposely try to confuse people with.

Sorry, nice try at spin - HSPA is mandated.

Sound familiar petkey?

Lorenzo Garcia pleaded guilty in June to two counts of fraud and faces up to 3½ years in prison at sentencing Friday. Garcia admitted to devising a scheme to keep low performing students from taking the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills test. Some of the students would be held back in the ninth grade while others would be told to drop out so they would not be among the 10th graders tested. Six other co-conspirators helped Garcia. The investigation continues.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/05/former-el-paso-schools-superintendent-faces-35-years-in-prison-for-test/#ixzz2C18QJXNz

Passkey-since you brought it up- you did not cease 10r in spring of 2009- there were stil 64 kids (32%) missing/not taking the test in the sping of 2009 (check for yourself http://hoboken.patch.com/blog_posts/hoboken-high-school-by-the-numbers#pdf-11526653).

As always, WRONG AGAIN!

pdq and Gregory Bond- no spin. The HSPA only has to be taken **once** in a high school student's academic life. No spin. Just facts.

The HSPA administration is for:

First-time eleventh-grade students (11) - March Only
Retained eleventh-grade students (R11)
Twelfth-grade students (12)
Retained twelfth-grade students (R12)
Returning students (RS)
Adult high school students (AH) who have not yet passed all sections of the HSPA
Reference: https://www.measinc.com/nj/Default.aspx

pdq- from the url you posted, "the 2008-09 data was the first school year in almost a decade that did not reflect surreptitious handling of the 11th grade student rolls." - JasonYN

Ruth McAllister should file a lawsuit on this issue. In fact, given that she is a Board trustee, agent of the State of New Jersey, and claims to have knowledge that cheating occurred, it is her responsibility to file a petition to the Commissioner of Education and the County Superintendent presenting her evidence. She now has a legal responsibility to follow up on had accusations. It would be interesting to hear the depositions of Kids First Trustees Minutillo, Markle, and Gillard who were all on the Board during the heyday of this program-- their hands would be just as dirty if not more so since they had oversight of the district-- its policies and its practices. Can't claim ignorance of the law in court.

Seems BOE Trustee McAllister has a choice. She can as CuriousGal suggest spend her time investigating the misdeeds of the past OR Ms. McAllister can devote her energies to fixing what is wrong and improving the performance of Hoboken's students.
.
I know the decision I, and I would guess the students and their parents, want Ms. McAllister to make.

No, its actually too late for that FAP. MacAllister, Jean Marie Mitchell, and even Toback have all referenced issues with test taking in the past-- largely to take attention away from the past 3+ years of dismal test scores. It was McAllisters decision to use excuses from the past for the current failures. Its now too late to "look to the future"-- she's had her chance. Now its time to file a lawsuit and present the evidence that she has that there was cheating going on.

Why should Ms. McAllister have to spend money to file a lawsuit?
Why couldnt the prior administration just test all of the 11th grade students?

Like many things their position should be peer reviewed before it is believed. Especially considering that both Cella and Petrosino have a vested interest in this issue.

A letter to the editor in the Hoboken Reporter *is* fact checked by the editors. That's good enough in my book.

A letter of that level of detail is hardly fact-checked.

It's statements like this that forever strand you on the side of the road holding up a silly sign while the world rambles by and ignores you save for a few titters and pointing.

"No one on the Board complained of the remediation program in place nor of the faculty program to replace it. That this remediation program apparently is being used as a political football (irresponsibly referred to as "cheating" at a recent public debate), years after its termination is unfortunate." -Drs. Cella and Petrosino

Read more: Hudson Reporter - No one ‘cheated’ on state test scores
http://hudsonreporter.com/view/full_story/20784844/article-No-one-‘cheated’-on-state-test-scores?instance=news_special_coverage_right_column

LMAO, you use the declining test scores as a political football and the primary reason test scores for the 11th grade are down is now we don't pretend kids who score poorly on the tests aren't in the 11th grade by using that 10r scam. Stop being a hypocrite like Mason already. It is just so tiring and predictable.

Mrs. Curious Gal,

This was noted several times in the past by board members and superintendent at public Board of Education meetings.

So what are your thoughts about a past superintendent, superintendent assistant and Principal using such a scam to game outcome of test scores? Do you have no issue with such a practice?

"Upon being made aware of this practice- and wanting to implement a new approach to remediation, we began a 12 month process to phase this practice out. Therefore, in March 2008 the top 50 percent of the identified remedial students were tested along with their junior year cohort and by the March 2009 "

Read more: Hudson Reporter - No one ‘cheated’ on state test scores

ALL 11TH GRADE STUDENTS MUST TAKE THE 11TH GRADE HSPA TEST. NOT 50%

"Our decision to explain, discuss and ultimately end the remediation program and replace it with a more comprehensive full faculty instructional practices approach- including collaborative study groups and professional learning communities- was supported by the Board of Education and the district administration in March 2009.

Read more: Hudson Reporter - No one ‘cheated’ on state test scores

So cg it seems that your assertion is that the test scores are lower because a new program was put in place.
who changed the scam er "remediation "program? according to Petrosino and cella; Petrosino and Cella
what year was it changed? according to Petrosino and Cella-2009
When did test scores decline in HHS? 2009?
When did Petrosino and cella know about this scam..er.. "remediation program"? in 2007:
"Upon being made aware of this practice- and wanting to implement a new approach to remediation, we began a 12 month process to phase this practice out. Therefore, in March 2008" Read more: Hudson Reporter - No one ‘cheated’ on state test scores
When did Petrosino and Cella start? 2007.

Thus they engaged in the scam er.."remediation" program for 2 testing years.

And they fully ADMIT that in 2009 they only additionally tested the top 50% of the remedial students. ALL 11th grade students MUST take HSPA not only top 50% of the remedial students.

So what does this letter really say? we didn't follow the mandate- we only tested some kids

Lorenzo Garcia pleaded guilty in June to two counts of fraud and faces up to 3½ years in prison at sentencing Friday. Garcia admitted to devising a scheme to keep low performing students from taking the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills test. Some of the students would be held back in the ninth grade while others would be told to drop out so they would not be among the 10th graders tested. Six other co-conspirators helped Garcia. The investigation continues.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/05/former-el-paso-schools-superintendent-faces-35-years-in-prison-for-test/#ixzz2C18QJXNz
.

You are just cherry picking sentences and mixing them around to suit your own perverted interests. Look, Kids First have been in charge for almost 4 years now and there is no evidence of any progress on state testing or SAT scores. Also, there is no evidence that scores in math or english were statistically significantly different before or after the so called remediation program.

Under Kids First here are the SAT scores from HHS. Who you going blame these on? ;-)

SAT Math HHS
2010- 388
2011- 380
2012- 369

SAT Writing HHS
2010- 397
2011- 386
2012- 374

National Averages: Math (516) and Writing (492)
New Jersey Average: Math (514) and Writing (497)

Notice there are 2 trends concerning the SAT scores under Kids First, 1) abysmal scores AND 2) trending downward-- Who you going to blame these scores on? Heckuva job Brownie!

Passkey you spent the past 4 months claiming that test scores went down since 2009. Now you claim "Also, there is no evidence that scores in math or english were statistically significantly different before or after the so called remediation program. "

Either get on you meds or dont post.

Trying to play both sides having it both ways doesnt work - it only makes you look like a fool.

Good luck if anyone in law enforcement ever bothers to follow up on this scam. They always have this post and the letter spelling out the fraudulent collusion in the Hudson Reporter.
If you are trying to cover your a$$ , it's not going to work.

pdq- you need to get your story straight. First it was Kids First who stopped this practice then it wasn't. Then it was cheating, now its not. Then it was scores are now honest but they haven't changed. You are all mixed up. You are even mixed up about who takes the HSPA test. Look for yourself:

The HSPA administration is for:
First-time eleventh-grade students (11) - March Only
Retained eleventh-grade students (R11)
Twelfth-grade students (12)
Retained twelfth-grade students (R12)
Returning students (RS)
Adult high school students (AH) who have not yet passed all sections of the HSPA
Reference: https://www.measinc.com/nj/Default.aspx

Remember, MORE STUDENTS NOW take the alternative HSPA test in Hoboken then EVER before. What's that about?

When is McAllister going to press formal charges? She "knows" cheating occurred. So, as a Board member McAllister (and Minutillo, Markle, Long, and the others...) are legally obligated to pursue formal charges, present her/their evidence, and make sure this issue is resolved. Or, of course, they (and you) could just be concerned with the current plummet and free fall the district is in in terms of test scores, graduation rates, AYP, school violence, state rankings, etc.....

My story has always been straight- There were still 64 kids missing from the test in 2009. YOU say you put an end to 10r testing. You knew about and used the 10r scam from 2007 through 2009. WHile you added the "top 50% of the remediation student group 11th grade population for 2009- you did NOT test all 1th graders in 2009. I will now, and always, point out that you admitted that you did so in your letter to the editor.

sound familiar?

Lorenzo Garcia pleaded guilty in June to two counts of fraud and faces up to 3½ years in prison at sentencing Friday. Garcia admitted to devising a scheme to keep low performing students from taking the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills test. Some of the students would be held back in the ninth grade while others would be told to drop out so they would not be among the 10th graders tested. Six other co-conspirators helped Garcia. The investigation continues.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/05/former-el-paso-schools-superintendent-faces-35-years-in-prison-for-test/#ixzz2C18QJXNz

oh and give us a break with with the 11r , 12 th and 12r- That is for the kids who did NOT pass the HSPA test when they took it in the 11th grade. Since you didnt test all the kids in the 11th grade this is not applicable to YOU.

ALL 11TH GRADE STUDENTS MUST TAKE THE HSPA TEST

Read the letter-- its all in the letter.

Aww...you seem a little upset. Is it that the chance of getting your job back at the hoboken board of education is slipping away before your eyes and you just can't bear it any longer or is it that you can't believe that you actually penned a letter to the local newpaper admitting that you perpetrated a "scheme" to hide those pesky 11th graders from taking the test?

read here "all EITHER eventually took the HSPA test OR the Special Review Assessment (SRA) now known as the Alternative High School Assessment required by the State of New Jersey." Clearly it does not say all took the HSPA test. It clearly says they took one or the other.

Read more: Hudson Reporter - No one ‘cheated’ on state test scores
tsk tsk tsk....
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/05/former-el-paso-schools-superintendent-faces-35-years-in-prison-for-test/#ixzz2C18QJXNz

if I were you, I'd be stressing a little myself. Maybe you should have a little glass of red with some pepperjack cheese and crackers.

One more thing, can you please read these sentences and explain it to me

BTW, what were the actual test scores before and after? I believe the data shows scores were not significantly different.

But, what is clear is how poor the scores have been under Kids First. You really can't deny it and can't hide from it since the data is known

If the scores weren't statisically different then what the heck are you complaining about?

The 10r stopped (according to you) - in 2009, the same year kids first had majority.They had majority for 3 years directly after 10r stopped (according to you). So if they werent statistically different after 10r stopped in 2009 (according to you), then, how is this sentence true- "what is clear is how poor the scores have been under Kids First."

You are winning the dunce cap award this evening.

sound familiar?
"In the short term, the strategy worked. Test scores improved in most high schools and the district's overall rating improved from "academically acceptable" in 2005 to "recognized" in 2010 - the second-highest rating possible."
""Other large districts have been ensnared in scandals to raise test scores, most recently in Atlanta, where educators gave answers to students or changed answers after tests were completed. But none has been so brazen as to cast off low-scoring students""

I don't know....when I hear you complaining all I hear is about the number of students taking the test, not the actual scores. I don't think there's much evidence the scores differed all that much- not as much as you would like people to believe. What IS clear is that the test scores under Kids First have gone down steadily over the nearly 4 years they have been in control. That's the problem isn't it? There's really no excuse for the test scores under Kids First except for the pathetic explanation that, "at least they are honest"-- ugh. Ridiculous.

Under Kids First here are the SAT scores from HHS.

SAT Math HHS
2010- 388
2011- 380
2012- 369

SAT Writing HHS
2010- 397
2011- 386
2012- 374

National Averages: Math (516) and Writing (492)
New Jersey Average: Math (514) and Writing (497)

Notice there are 2 trends concerning the SAT scores under Kids First: 1) abysmal scores AND 2) trending DOWNWARD--

Got excuses for this?

dope- the SAT scores are the only scores that remained statistically insiginificant- with typical gains and losses for each subject year after year.

why spin something that is so easily disprovable?

did you want that cap in yellow or red?

http://education.state.nj.us/rc/rc11/rcreport.php?c=17;d=2210;s=005

Why dont you provide the SAT scores for three years prior to 2009? Let me guess you don't want to talk about the past?

One more thing, I noticed you forgot to mention- the entire state has gone down. In fact the entire state avg has "failed AYP" benchmarksu in Elementary, Middle and HIgh School. Why haven't you noted that?

The whole state has gone down? Maybe HSPA scores have gone down but NOT the SAT's---but don't let that get in the way of using the drop in HSPA scores for the consistent drop in SAT scores under KF (an entirely DIFFERENT test)....is this the NEW EXCUSE? SAT's in NJ have actually gone UP a few points--- got more excuses?

"The state (NJ) average is 1,511—three points higher than last year." -http://cinnaminson.patch.com/articles/high-school-sat-scores-rise-for-the-class-of-2012

The data passkey posted indicates SAT scores in Math are down 19 points and in Writing they are down by 23 points in 3 years. I'm not a statistician but I don't believe those are insignificant drops. In addition, EACH YEAR of Kids First control has seen a drop in scores from the previous year in EACH subject.

CG, why is it when half of the 10th graders disappear in a given year, you call it random statistical noise, but when the SAT scores drop by about 5%, you guesstimate statistical significance?

I do not believe you know what the word "literally" means. Perhaps your education is lacking in other areas as well.

19/600 (range) = 3.1%
23/600 (range) = 3.8%

Next.

So based on math, the results are LITERALLY <5% difference. Statistically irrelevant, perhaps. But certainly nowhere near 10%. You're LITERALLY incapable of doing math, curiousgal. Are you among the 2012 student takers of the SAT from HHS?

If it's literally criminal, why don't you press charges? Why haven't they been arrested yet.

Allow me to restate my question: When for almost 10 years, the number of 11th graders was about half of the 10th graders, you claimed it was a statistical aberration. I provided a rudimentary statistical analysis showing you were, quite frankly, wrong. You never accepted any argument of significance, instead just hand waving around it.
You have the changes over three years, without estimation of a standard deviation to determine significance. You conclude that the results are likely statistically significant, without any estimation. Your only consistency in argument is being a complete shill for Move Forward.

Also, absolute and relative changes are both valid when you have a ranged score. It's like if Kid's First had a 20% lead that fell to a 5% lead, that could be a 15% (absolute) or 75% (relative) drop.

A 10%+ drop with a population of about 125 students taking the SAT's is significant. Furthermore, a 3 year trend of SAT scores going down each year over 3 different subjects (math, reading, writing) is more than a coincidence. Finally, don't talk to me about absolute and relative changes when you have range scores. As I said, the range of SAT scores begins with 200 not 0 and I already explained in detail how to calculate percent change.

I shouldn't do stats when I am tired. Population SD for the SAT is 100 points. That's calibrated. Using the difference of means formula for identical standard deviation is s*sqrt(1/125+1/125)=12.6. At a 5% level, we would need a 25.2 score change for statistical significance. In other words, the change is NOT statistically significant.

Of course, the change in student population under the Old Guard was significant at .1% level, year after year after year.

http://stattrek.com/estimation/difference-in-means.aspx

Can we stop this charade of speculation now that I took the 5 minutes to do the math?

I came up with these confidence intervals-

Mean of 2010 Math minus Mean of 2012 Math = 19.00
90% CI: -1.88 to 39.88
95% CI: -5.91 to 43.91
99% CI: -13.83 to 51.83

Mean of 2010 Writing minus Mean of 2012 Writing = 23.00
90% CI: 2.12 to 43.88
95% CI: -1.91 to 47.91
99% CI: -9.83 to 55.83

The downward change is not statistically significant. I also did an effect size calculation and came up with about .2 (small-medium effect).

As an aside-- while I realize the s.d. of the SAT's is 100-- that is for the entire population of SAT takers. I wondered what the s.d. is within a particular non-random population like we are talking about. I ran the numbers with an s.d. of 50 and 150 and the confidence intervals weren't much different.

PK, I was thinking about that as well. In general, when there is a sample from the population, I thought it was appropriate to use the population standard deviation unless you believe that the sample is not representative of the population. If anything, smaller samples can lend themselves to outliers and larger standard deviations, hence the advantage of using a full population. Given that we can't get the data anyhow, that's as good as we'll do.

Also, CG's claim probably requires a 1-sided test and CI, which I believe fails at all significance level, and even with a tighter sd.

I've about reached the end of stats I'm willing to do without consulting faculty and without charging.

The numbers above indicate a 19 point change and a 23 point change.

There is a 600 point range. 800 (perfect score) - 200 (minimum score)= 600

The % change is therefore 19/600 or 23/600 depending on the test.

Passkey, here's a question for you:
I have 10 apples. I sell 1 apple. How many apples do I have?