Scott - the levy is not as important as the bills we pay and the quality of the services we receive for the bills we pay. I know you have difficulty visualizing this having never paid a property tax bill here in Hoboken but this adminstration has continued the long tradition of see saw tax bills - the municipal bill went down and the school bill went up. Glad to hear we have these surpluses. Guess we all got over-billed. When PSE&G does this they cut our future bills or rebate. Moving the elections to November may or may not be a good idea but it definitely is a term extension for the at-large council people and the mayor and as such should not be decided by them.

Scott - I think you sidestepped a critical issue: the Council majority was conflicted when it voted to extend its stay in power for 6 months beyond what was originally disclosed to the people. Yes this was legal. However, you should not necessarily do something just because it is legal.

Thankfully our system allows us to resort to direct democracy to cure problems associated with representative democracy. This is what is happening in this instance: the referendum petition enables a direct vote by the people which will help cure the problem I cited.

I welcome the debate between whether it is best to save the city an average of $75,000 per year and increase voter turn-out versus the risk of increased partisanship and December run offs, (which may actually decrease voter turn-out in critical run offs). And I have no problem moving elections to November if that is what the people want. But to me, how we get somewhere as a society can be just as important as our ultimate destination.

However, your preference for the New York Giants is impeccable.
FP

HOBOKEN'S CULTURE OF CORRUPTION WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT .

When they all get behind something you know it has to be wrong for Hoboken and good for themselves.

Cheating you made an entry at 7:34 AM
Infotainme you made an entry at 8:34 AM
Redrider you made an entry at 9:34 AM

These entries were made in exact 1 hour intervals.

Hmm…

Pay these do gooders no mind. Keep up the good work Lane and Franz.
There's no amount of money we can throw at paper ballots to overcome the 45% increase in voter participation in November.

Keep fighting and confuse as many dumb newcomers as possible.
Pupie and I are proud of you and your service to us.

K5: You can't even read a budget. I laid it all out for you. It would have been easy for a 10 year old, but not K5. The school levy has not gone up. That is another lie. It a flat too the dollar. The school levy is also at the lowest level permitted by NJ state law. Please try to get your facts straight next time.

Cheating, obviously how long one has lived in town doesn't matter. The mayor moved in after 2002. I've lived here longer than Scott. I pay my own taxes. I own property. Scott on the other hand took advantage of the rent laws to beat his elderly landlord out of $70K and did not feel he should invest in property so he too could see a real life honest to goodness tax bill. I also own my own business and manage my budget every year - receivables vs. expenses et al. Glad he can lay it all out for me - obviously he is a genius and anyone he disagrees with is either criminal or stupid. I am looking at my 2010 tax bills and 2011/2012 bills - school percentage was raised. Was there a misprint somewhere or am I a liar? C'mon Scott, I'll show you my bills if you show me yours - wait, you can't - you've never seen one of your own.

All people like K5 can do is try to smear people. It's called the politics of personal destruction. I urge readers not to play his despicable game and stick to the issues. In regards to school levy he is just as wrong as he was on the municipal levy. For the record:
The 2010-11 budget:
http://www.hoboken.k12.nj.us/files/2010-11%20Proposed%20Budget.pdf
Go to page 2, it says:
$36, 479, 095
It shows the same for the prior year as well K5.
Go to the 2011-12 budget:
http://www.hoboken.k12.nj.us/files/2011-2012%20Budget%20Public%20Notice.pdf
Go to page 2:
What does it say K5?
Just like the municipal levy I am laying this out so a 10 year old can find out answer.
Can you?
Note: The BOE and City Hall have absorbed millions of dollars in NJ state aid cuts as well. the BOE levy is at the lowest level permitted by state law as well.

In her "shiniest" moment. Mason In the her own words. http://www.vimeo.com/4387829

I think if I were to ask 10 of my friends (Age Range 25-35), 8 of them would say they are not registered to vote in Hoboken.

It's also a fair bet that the girls on the second floor of my apartment building are also not registered to vote here in Hoboken.

The 25-35 demographic in this town is tuned out. They simply do not pay attention or care about local politics. I also do not think it would be a stretch if I were to say that outside of my group of friends, my personal findings are similar to other groups of friends.

A candidate that can tap into this demographic and simply register them to vote, is more or less registering a vote on the ballot, in their favor.

Mr. Siegel: once again let me point out that even though the school tax levy has remained flat, the taxes we pay (school portion) have gone up AGAIN. We are paying more and more for the schools. That's a fact written in black and white on every tax bill so please acknowledge it and move on. If the state has decided that the tax levy can't be cut, and the board wants to cut the levy (according to you), why isn't the board advocating for a waiver?

And it was reported that due to the NJ Supreme Court decision, Abbot districts such as Hoboken got the school aid that Gov. Christie cut. Hoboken just got an extra $1.7 million. So please stop saying that your Kids First friends are coping with decreased state aid.

Interesting how MadisonMonroe has chimed in seamlessly to continue a conversation with Keating - maybe they are twins - I've heard sometimes one twin can seamlessly finish sentences for their sibling.

It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain the difference between the tax rate and tax levy to MM, K5, Cassandra etc. They refuse to look at the data to learn the truth. There is little we can do with financial incompetents like Beth Russo supporters.

I know very well the difference between the tax rate and the tax levy; The school budget should be managed to reduce the amount taxpayers pay. It is not !

Mr. Siegel, please please direct me to one piece of information put out by Kids First that indicates they were interested in reducing the school tax levy. It was their stated goal to have a "flat" tax levy. If Mr. Davis tried to enter $1 lower into the computer as a sort of test, it still doesn't sound like they had a plan to cut the budget.

The Kids First led board sued the state to be able to pay Dr. Mark Toback over and beyond the cap on superintendent pay. They were shot down by the state and Dr. Toback came to work here anyway. (And then promptly fired Ms. Ohaus and Ms. Hillenbrand, with the Kids First stamp of approval, but that's another thread.)

Why doesn't the board put their attorney to work suing the state to give some tax relief to Hoboken taxpayers? They could explain that they have kept the tax levy flat, but that's not enough to keep property taxes from rising. Could we please have a waiver? You're a card-carrying member of Revolt, right Mr. Siegel? Isn't that something you and your group would advocate?

No, our board of education will only sue the state to pay its employees more. Sure sounds like something out of the "old guard" bag of tricks.

So you want to waste more tax payer dollars chasing a mythical windmill lawsuit. Ask a lawyer about how hard it is to strike down state statutes just because you don't like them. Davis explained that he and the board wanted to cut the levy but were thwarted by the formula. Why complain ad nauseum about things you can't control. Oh, wait a minute, that is what your side does.

"You folks"? I would like to believe that I am an equal opportunity offender, Redrider 765. Waste is waste is waste. Kids First waste doesn't smell any prettier than "old guard" waste.

This board, led by Kids First, voted to sue the State of New Jersey to pay Dr. Toback extra money. Does that come under the category of spending money to "help kids to learn"? How much was spent on that legal boondoggle? Perhaps Mr. Siegel could raise that question at the next meeting on behalf of Revolt.

Give me a break. There are always legal issues to be dealt with. It's one thing when you don't like a Governor's fiat, but it's a totally different animal to overturn settled state law.

So you think it was a wise move (politically and financially) for the Hoboken school board to institute a lawsuit against the State of New Jersey for the sole purpose of paying more money to one untested, unproven individual? And let's not forget, they were shot down (thank goodness).

Want proof that keeping taxes low is important to the reform School Board? That's easy, year after year they're doing it. Proof of the pudding is in the tasting and the numbers don't lie.

there maybe a mandate on the levy but is there a mandate on what is spent?
If you dont spend all of the levy then you can have a big surplus so you can reduce taxes the following year. Scott, tell me if the state mandates that all the levy be spent. If it does then things are hopeless.

I direct your attention to the NJ Taxpayers Guide to Education Spending, released in May. http://www.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/education/csg/11/csg.pl

Hoboken school district. 2009-10
Total Spending Per Pupil: $24,092

This places Hoboken #68 out of 69 districts in spending in the 1,800-3,500 students group.

Yes, you are right, Fap, the numbers don't lie.

09/10-(Raslowski's budget)However, under KF, it was underspent. KF budget is 2010/11,
http://education.state.nj.us/rc/rc10/dataselect.php?datasection%5B4%5D=financial&c=17&d=2210&s=005&lt=CD&st=CD
(1)TOTAL COMPARATIVE COST PER PUPIL
09/10- $21,859
08/09- $24,471
07/08 $19,465
(2)TOTAL COST PER PUPIL
09/10- $18,726
08/09 $21,771
07/08 $18,546

Perhaps anticipating the fulminations of Pied Piper, the Governor's office press release on May 20 included this language:

The New Taxpayers' Guide to Education "formerly known as the Comparative Spending Guide, outlines the cost of educating students for the 2009-2010 school year. The Taxpayers’ Guide now includes a per-pupil spending figure that reflects the total amount spent on PreK-12 education in New Jersey. The former per-pupil cost in the Comparative Spending Guide did not include many categories of spending, and, therefore, reflected an artificially low per-pupil cost."

So, the State says Total Spending Per Pupil in 2009/10 in Hoboken was $24,092.
The state average for the 31 Abbott districts, which also offer free fulltime preschool and have competition from many charter schools, was $20,859.
http://www.state.nj.us/education/news/2011/0520csg.htm

Increase class size; reduce non teaching "supervisors" and coordinators; eliminate preschool; should reduce expenses; reduce benefits etc; since our per pupil costs are so out of line - something is causing the high cost - as I have said before nothing ever seems to change in hoboken- the only thing important to those in charge is to get reelected aqnd take care of their friends; mustr be in the water

FAP -- how can you be so wrong? school taxes have gone up each year under Kids First. Look at your own property tax bill -- if you have one -- and do the math. Hoboken school taxes went up 1.95% last year and another 1.83% this year. That's after KF promised to cut taxes. And don't give me that baloney about the levy being the lowest allowed by the state. Our genius BA Davis could've asked for a waiver but didn't even realize he couldn't cut the budget until right before the budget deadline, when it was too late. Why does that incompetent still have a job? You're right about one thing, FAP, Numbers don't lie.

Frank: please see my links on the BOE budget levy. If you don't reply I'll have to make you the President of the financially incompetent posters.

Passkey - according to the link you provided the school tax levy went up from $35.55 million to $37.06 mill under raslowski an increase of 4.25%. Under KF it dropped to 36.48 a cut of 2.7%. The numbers show that KF reversed the trend line from up to down, though you are correct that overall the levy has been stable over time. Of course so were our municipal taxes until we ran out of Roberts/Russo gimmicks.

@GH- yes, there was an increase as you correctly point out. My issue simply being that overall, the levy has been fairly stable over time- especially when adjusted for inflation.

Kids First tax cut has to be viewed in the light of 13.5% raise anti-reform doled out right before they lost power.
.
In their last year of majority the anti-reform Board of Ed members committed Hoboken to giving out 4.3% raises every year for 3 years. To put that in perspective when people were getting pay cuts and layoffs Anti-Reform gave out a 13.5% raise.
.
Despite this 13.5% salary raise, State funding cuts and in the face of other rising costs Kids First was still able to cut the levy. That is not only impressive in comparison to Anti-Reforms past it's downright amazing,

Re: CheatingFive's earlier assertion that "Actually he was bought out of his lease, it has nothing to do with ANY rent laws. He negotiated a price and the owners AGREED!"
It certainly didn't sound that way in his landlord's 2009 letter to the Reporter:
"Now we have laws for the tenants that allow for extortion: the practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats."
One thing about the "Old Guard" - they remember what really happened.

Claire, MSV brings up an interesting point today on his site. Despite most of the leg work on the petition drive was done by developer/uber politico Frank "Pupie" Raia and the Russo/Mason crew they were not credited in Patch story. Was there a reason for this ?

Also what ever happened to the follow up promised on Michelle Russo's Hudson County job ?

http://hobokenhorse.blogspot.com

FAP--there has never been a KF tax cut. what are you talking about? school taxes have gone up by almost 2% in each of the KF years. Your own people are saying the tax levy has been flat, not cut. And you shouldn't talk about the 4.3% raises the teachers got. KF handed out raises almost as high to the custodians, and that was after it was clear money was much tighter than before. You can say the old guard was anti-reform but raising taxes, failing schools and falling test scores, killing the IB, theater and Hopkins programs, firing the best two teachers and now promising to blow millions of dollars on a solar panel boondoggle for the schools, as I read in the Hoboken Reporter, is not exactly a record of reform. Raslowsky may have put the schools on their path of destruction that KF is finishing, but at least he cut taxes 2.8% in his last year, while KF keeps raising them. And PP and RR, since you've moved out of town and pulled your kids out of our schools, why don't you stop spreading your misinformation here. From what I understand, the Westfield schools have bigger problems than we have so you should be focusing on Westfield Patch.

Do these Pupie Petition Power People ever get tired of retreading their same tired lies over and over again on the schools? They either get paid a lot by Raia to do all this ass kissing from Texas and Secaucus or they really want to get their hands on that million dollar surplus. Or both.

Remember the good old days when Hoboken was controlled by one boss who could hand out patronage jobs, tell taxpayers what to pay and keep our schools a place of employment for our friends?

While Frank Raia can be that person again, I promise you I can too.
Vote for me for Grand Poobah of all Hoboken!

Will they continue to play nice after they win back the BoE? How will the million be divided up? any guesses?

You never know they may have been given an apartment or something . :-)

Pied Piper, when the numbers benefit Kids First, you are more than ready to claim the 2009-2010 budget year as their handiwork. When those numbers indicate a problem for Kids First, you palm that year off as the work of Jack Raslowsky.

Are you actually saying that because 2009-10 is the last year for which fully audited figures are available, and because Mr. Raslowsky was the superintendent during the months in 2009 when that budget was put together, Kids First has no fully audited numbers under its belt?

A few questions for the ever-knowledgeable Pied Piper:

The board discovered only this year that the district was at the lowest allowable tax levy. So why didn't they try to reduce the tax levy the two previous years?

Expanded the gift & talented program? Really? By firing Cheng-yen Hillenbrand, the woman who created the largest Johns Hopkins program in the country. (and fired Paula Ohaus too, in case anyone has forgotten). And Kids First also replaced the free Saturday U program with a program that parents have to pay for.

Can you please point to the part in the agenda that shows which new math textbooks the district has purchased? I see the purchase of science kits but not math books.

I also see an agreement for students to get credit for classes at Hudson County Community College? Can you please identify the other "colleges" they made agreements with?

If you're saying that our high school students were taking only 1 or 2 math classes a week, why didn't Mr. Carter change that disastrous situation during his 2 years as interim superintendent?

Scott,

This is what i don't get. All your arguments about how a November election will do the things you allege they will do...don't they also apply to referndum vote in November as well? I mean if this referndum is put to a vote this November...then isn't that just an extention of the arguements you are making for moving the elections to November as well?

What is the big deal, this is a referndum on city election dates not minority rights.

Scott - But won't the same people who you claim work for $40 and vote for a canidate also still do it in November as well? IIRC the last November election for city council was a November election, on national elecetion day, where it was the only race in town and got tons of press. I assume you didnt like that outcome either? So does it really have any signifigant effect?

I can see good arguments from both sides as to why it should or should not be moved, at the end of the day on referendum it can be decided by those that will vote. I think that is a fair comprimise.

Here is my take on the issue.

Looking at poll results some people will go to vote but not vote for referendums.
It was within the CC's scope of responsibility to change the date of elections. We have a Democratic Republic, not a strict democracy.
I have nothing against the voice of the people and would be behind this referendum 100%, if not for the deceitful manner that signatures were gathered. Telling someone petitions is to stop the PATH fair hike when it is to stop the election move is a dirty political trick and unsupportable by any honest person.

Scott - The BOE election results were Garcia 1876, Biancamano 1587, Rhodes-Kearns 1568; Mitchel 1303, Godfrey 1271, Feinstein 1195.....BEFORE any of the 400+ VBM ballots were counted. And KF did not lose "because schools were not in session" - they lost because people see what KF has done. And Occipinti won the Fourth ward seat because the majority of voters went to polls and chose him to represent them - not because of VBMs. Over 3700 people signed the referendum petition because they want to vote on whether or not Hoboken will continue to elect representatives in May - NOT because they were duped into believing it was about the PATH fare increase. All this chirping about $40 votes and excuses, excuses, excuses - people are neither as corrupt nor as stupid as KF supporters would like everyone to believe.

Kids First has also seen a major dip in their amount of money they are able to raise. This year they (Mitchell, Feinstein, Godfrey) raised $9,028.
Last year they (Gold, Markle, Sobolov, Mitchell -- 4 candidates because of 1 filled an unfinished term) raised $15,067.
In 2009, they (Minutillo, McAllister and Sullivan, who has since quit Kids First) raised $29,430.

Pied Piper, I would love to watch last week's school board meeting, but it's just a frozen image on channel 77. But as other posters are suggesting, it looks as though you don't live in Hoboken anymore so I don't suppose you are aware of that.

Going all the way back to the suggested "tax relief" comment: when the education funds were released over the summer, Christie hoped districts would use them for tax relief. Hoboken did not have any shortfall, or at least I hadn't read any such reports, so why wasn't any of that money applied to tax relief? Are we actually looking for ways to spend money? Was there a budget gap someplace that I've missed?

I think Christie's relief comment was more for communities that were planning on raising taxes to fund the schools and he hoped they would use the new state funding to offset part of the need for that increase. Hoboken can't cut the levy below what it was the prior year. That is the law.

MM - kids first candidates don't need to buy votes to win, so they need less money. Maybe if your candidates ran honest campaigns on the issues and didn't need to write checks to their supporters on election day, they might not need access to Pupie's checkbook so much.

MM- As of this morning, Channel 77 is currently "frozen" on a still image of the August 16th BOE meeting for at least the 3rd consecutive day. I also believe the Paula Ohaus/Ms. Hillenbrand "Donaldson hearing" had what seemed like a VERY short time on the airwaves and the HHS graduation ceremony never aired although I understand it was videotaped. Previously, graduation ceremonies were broadcasted on Channel 77. What's going on?

Cassandra,

There have be a few reports of fraud. Some commuters say they were approached on their way into work to sign a stop the fare hike petition, then when the read the petition, they saw it was for the election move. I'm sure the liars were counting on enough people to be in hurry and would not even read what they were signing.

And let's not forget that the chief backers of this referendum habitually use checks to collect votes every election season. They'll do it to get votes for this thing too. They have absolutely no interest in letting the people decide anything. They will let their checkbooks do the deciding and will buy every vote they can.

If mroe people participate in Nov elections than May elections I don't understand why there would be any opposition. Could one of the Callichos or Cassandra explain why they oppose more people voting?

FAP - you think they want people deciding anything? If they wanted the people to decide things, they wouldn't be passing out checks to make sure they voted the right way. An honest vote is a free vote and the last thing these people want are honest votes deciding things in this town.

All politics aside, with the incoming hurricane and threat of flooding especially to downtown residents, some of you might want to consider parking your car at Secaucus Junction. The train runs about every 15 minutes and on Sunday the parking lot should be fairly empty. Unlike everything west of Willow, the SJ parking area is not prone to flooding. $20 for 24 hrs; $7 for 12 hours. Definitely worth it to avoid flood damage to your vehicle. yeah, yeah, I know.... I'm getting soft... but what would we do if the cantankerous likes of RR, Hobbs et al floated away down those newly cleaned HSA drains? I would miss my daily dose of being called corrupt!

Keep your eyes on the City website as well. Mayor Zimmer's letter referenced a possibility of the city providing outside parking. I'll be bringing in my lawn furniture and garbage cans. Everyone should do the same. Let's hope we all get through Irene safe and sound.

Ms Burns I never called you corrupt just referenced your very close relationship to Frank "Pupie" Raia .... :-)

But thank you for your concern .

TB

Yes you, that Secaucus based disease that infects Hoboken for no special reason other than an affinity for all things Poopie. Why dont you just throw your head in the terlet and flush, repeatedly. That would be more useful than your meaningless and inane posts.

I urge all sides to try to stick to issue at hand and not call people names. Thanx and stay safe.

As I thought. Hoboken residents can park in the municipal garages for $5 a day if you have a valid permit.

If there are sufficient spots for everyone trying to avoid the flooded streets, then of course, the muni garages are the best option. But as experienced during the snowstorms, the need for space was greater than could be accomodated. People have a day or so to figure out what they are going to do, but if Irene follows the same trajectory as Floyd, it will be a dangerous storm.

Getting back to the topic of the initial post, it just seems that people who support democracy should be happy to be able to vote on the matter of having separate municipal elections in May.

Frank "Pupie" Raia does his best Hoboken vote gathering in small elections and that is why he was behind the petition drive to keep it that way.

They may try to wrap themselves in the American flag but frankly it just ain't the real reason for their actions. :-)

I don't know of anyone who opposes a vote on the matter. What seems to bother them when paid canvassers lie to potential signers and tell them it's about the PA hike. People also look as to who is behind the effort and it's the same people who engage in the questionable (and probably being investigated) VBM game.

Fap

Never said I do not want more people voting. I simply said there is nothing wrong with letting people vote to decide whether or not to move the municipal election.

there are pros and cons to this question ; let the voters decide;

Cassandra can you tell me the "cons" of having more people participate in their elections? I can't think of any.

In what may be the last of the many small elections in Hoboken Frank "Pupie" Raia Hoboken vote gather will i=no doubt be out gathering votes to keep his political advantage.

Mason/Russo/Castellano/Occhipinti/Ramos/Cryan who benefit from Pupie's voter gathering will also seek to hold onto their advantage.

No medals for good intentions for any of them.

Cassandra, is there something wrong w/ having people get paid to vote how things are decided? Because all the chief people behind this referendum have been habitual check writers whenever there is an election and we all know they will do it again this time. Don't worry, I don't expect an answer from that question.

Thank goodness for all those zoning variances granted to Raia and co. Thanks to those variances, all roads near the newly built buldings are safe. Just look at the shoprite area. Everyone should go park in the lot over there. He did a great job ensuring the infrastructure could handle the new, overdevelopment.

Scott Siegel there is one thing you are overlooking. Once again Ms.Zimmer wants it both ways.Her and her allies clam that the Hoboken residents will not be able to make a differance in the voting process if it all takes place in November is an insult to the Hoboken residents. Then on the other hand because she wants to be mayor for six more months (and the the only reason) many people in Hoboken do not know there is a municipal eletion in May which is it oh thats right which ever the queen wants and her subjects.Get real this is just so she can stay in office and pull her tricks to run with a republican that she clams she is a democrat she is a liar and an oppertunist.

noitall - there is a feature on most computers called "spell check." You might find it helpful. It won't correct your grammatical mistakes or make your writing any less incoherent, but it will help you appear slightly less uneducated.

The Ordinance was put forth by the council. They had discussed the matter before the 6 month extension was in the law, when Nino Giachhi was Council President. Hoboken is merely following a good law as written.

Hoboken resident on petition fraud:
http://www.hobokenhorse.com/2011/09/hoboken-resident-petition-fraud-is.html#idc-container